SAHMS ON MN

[UBIA]

This is supposedly a site for mums - all types of mums.

On such a website, why is there so much hate and vitriol against mums who choose to SAH for a while?

The usual excuse for the storm of reactions is about financial vulnerability. Ok, I get that. But what if they're not financially vulnerable? How would you know? Bring a SAHM might have made you financially vulnerable - but you can't extrapolate that onto everyone else.

Why do people give anecdotes about some friend or their mother who was bored / insane / husband had an affair etc? Why? This is like saying "My friend had a job but she got depressed." So what? Also, if men are going to cheat, that's what they'll do anyway. Anyone can cheat in any type of marriage.

Why do people assume SAHMs are there for housework purposes? That depends on where / how they live and if they have cleaners, just like anyone else.

Why di people tell SAHMs their marriages are not 'equal?' Equality is about mutual respect. It has nothing to do with what job you do or money.

Frequently, people will say things like," Well, after my divorce the fact I was working meant I wasn't screwed." Ok, this is good obviously, but also, that's just you. How do you know the financial circumstances of anyone else - working or not? And why do you assume people haven't factored this sort of thing in?

Dime SAHMs will be screwed after divorce, sure. But others will not be. It depends on so many factors. Just like it does for anyone who works - it's all relative and completely circumstantial.

It is very odd that in a site for mums, the only mums that seem acceptable are the ones who don't SAH! MN is not like real life at all in this respect, it's very extreme (as I read it) because I don't know anyone in real life who makes assumptions about SAHMs or who would even care about this for 3 seconds. AIBU to think MN should be more open-minded and just live and let live without all the crazy assumptions.

'Most of the time'?

How many SAHMs do you know?

I knew plenty when my kids were small and all but one of them went back to work when they grew up.

What an inflammatory reply.

I don't "attack" SAHMs at all. I do point out in threads like this that when they remain at home (and become housewives not SAHMs) following their children going to school that it's precarious for them, though. Infidelity, poor health, death of the providing DH/DP. It's not the most sensible position to put one's self in, relying entirely on someone else.

In general, I don't bring it up. It's none of my business and I've got more interesting things to think about than how someone else lives.

Why do you "attack" working mums and accuse them of jealousy? 😁

I'm a sahm and I've seen the sorts of threads you're talking about. Its almost as though people think that if you're a sahm and your husband is the sole earner then you must be getting shafted in some way. Its almost as though being a sahm means you'll definitely end up divorced. Not that I'm saying working moms don't get shit too because they do but sahms are definitely looked down on by alot on this site

@UBIA

Are you new to MN?

This is supposedly a site for mums - all types of mums

no, no it's not. It's a site for PEOPLE. Parents of either sex, non parents of either sex, people of any gender.

It doesn't have a mind of its own, it's a collection of posts, by over a million people.

if you don't like it, it's easier to find another site than to change what hundreds of thousands of people write.

on this particular subject people respond the the OP's individual situation as the see it. If you don't agree, you can have your say too.

nappyvalley1992 · Today 16:11

" I find most of the time SAHM types are those that never quite fitted into society, and motherhood gives them a good exit out where they can sit at home and not have to interact with the wider world."

How many SAHMs di you know? What is 'fitting into society?'

There isn't 'vitriol and hate'. You are greatly exaggerating. What there is is some often quite robust debate with some posters saying variously that they would find it boring, would not like to be kept by a man, that they think it makes women vulnerable, that the model isn't good for women generally etc. This is invariably countered by other posters saying the first group are jealous of them. This tends to annoy the first group and things can get a little heated.

That may be true for a small minority of instances. I assume it's also true the other way round (that a small minority of SAHMs attack WOHMs due to envy).

As a WOHM I have been on the receiving end of some fairly unpleasant, unsolicited, and uncalled for comments from a SAHM. I'll assume that "Doesn't your husband want to look after you?", "Don't you want to spend time with your children?", "Don't you love your children enough to give up work?" and other such crap (all actual sentences that came out of her mouth) was down to her being envious of my career/earning ability/independence.

If you’re asking people on Mumsnet to stop being nasty to each other then you’ll be waiting a very long time.

I've been a SAHM for several years now and tbh, I do sometimes get pitying looks from working mums. There are a few other SAHM I know and they never comment on the working mum's choices. Might be just my experience, I think it's more polarising than it should be,
Nothing beats one grandma I chatted to at a playground, who commented that I've 'never bothered going back to work'. My eldest was only 1.5 at the time! My jaw dropped too low to respond. I could have told her I have enough in my ISA to not worry about it for now.
I'm a SAHM mum because we can afford to, my youngest is not at school yet. I will go back to work eventually. I feel very lucky I could stay with my children in their preschool years. Ideally I'd have kept working part time, but it wasn't an option for me.

"I don't "attack" SAHMs at all. I do point out in threads like this that when they remain at home (and become housewives not SAHMs) following their children going to school..."

You see, I find that quite interesting because you put 'housewives' in bold. It's as if you feel the need to categorise what women are and put a value judgement on it. But it doesn't matter whether somebody else's kids are at school or whatever really, does it? Why the need to categorise other people? Everyone makes decisions in their own contexts.

If none of this matters, why start a thread about it?

It’s complicated but it’s partly jealousy. (Before the pile on I’m not a SAHM). Most women would like more time with their kids or not have to get out of bed first thing Monday, or have a weekend off. Two working parents with kids is quite a fraught life.

I think people are generally critical of choices that they wouldn't, or can't make themselves. It definitely goes both ways. People prioritise different things, and have different choices available to them. Don't take the criticism so personally, if anything reflecting upon them will solidify your decisions.

I long to work again purely for the rest!! I'm running around like crazy after my family, running the pta at school and generally helping everyone else.

I day dream of going back to work and paying a cleaner, do more afterschool club sessions, commuting on the train with a good book and a coffee, blissful if the train ever was delayed in the morning. Even socialising with my colleagues.

But then I think that my mum was always working so it's nice to be at home for the kids.

Because it is different. Plain and simple. A SAHM is someone who is at home bringing up children. If there are no children at home to bring up, then she is no longer a SAHM. She's just a parent. If her day consists of cleaning and doing household duties, she is a housewife.

SAHMs are home for a reason. Children require care either in a childcare setting or at home. Staying at home beyond that isn't essential. Of course people can and do. But it could also be argued that it would be more sensible for the woman to work at least PT hours and earn her own money, and split household tasks between herself and her adult partner.

I would never say anything to an individual. My best friend is a fab person and a ‘sahm’ with two kids at university and one in year 11.

But I will continue to challenge the role of the sahm in society as I believe it contributes to sexism and the gender pay gap.

This I see far more vitoral towards parents who put their kids in nursery / wrap around to work full time.

I think in situations where they are unmarried living in partners house it is precarious but about the only time I see an issue with being a SAHM

I think it’s because some SAHM are of the view that they enable their husbands to work when in reality many are being enabled to stay at home. There was a thread recently where a pilot’s wife felt she was contributing equally to keeping a roof over the family’s head but in reality, she’s not. Pilot would still work, pay mortgage and pay for a cleaner, childcare etc for his share if they spilt. And in comparing their daily tasks she reduced his job to one entry “work”. What a SAHM brings is of course incredibly valuable to their family but not particularly to wider society.

I don't think the vast majority on MNet have even the tinny bit against SAHMs, they may be a few that do, as always there is some people.
What I think is that the vast majority of MNetters don't like the "my parenting is better because I spend more time with my kids that you" vibes, a lot of SAHMs post and threads transpire, and all of that.
The don't put yourself in a dependant financial situation with the high divorce rates etc is more a warning/advice for them.

I know lots of SAHMs. At one point I'd have liked to have been one.

But I can also see the pitfalls. Some have had very nice lives. It's enough to make most people jealous. However near universally I have seen a shift in their status. They support the big job which is fine while all is going well.

It definitely changes the dynamic of most marriages. Great if it hasn't changed yours or if you have both adapted well. But to pretend it doesn't does no one any favours.

Sadly now I am in middle age and our kids are past the stage of needing care, I've seen several replaced for a younger model.

Of course this happens to woman who work too but the fall out has been devastating.

Being a SAHM is great if you are married, have independent money or work in a field where time out isn't curtains. That doesn't apply to a huge number.

I haven't noticed that at all...

But I will continue to challenge the role of the sahm in society as I believe it contributes to sexism and the gender pay gap.

Personally I think you’re very confused and challenging the role of the sahm is rooted in sexism.

@UBIA "On such a website, why is there so much hate and vitriol against mums who choose to SAH for a while? "

What do you mean "hate and vitriol"? Are sure you don't just mean people pointing out the disadvantages and risks in terms of finance, pension and career?

I suppose it's because it's often linked in with "oh, I couldn't leave my baby in a nursery all day" and then that gets people's backs up. I would always choose to be a SAHM if I could, although I ended up a single parent. The only way now I would have a child with someone would be if I completely trusted them and could rely on them to support me and baby financially so I could stay at home with them.

Out of interest, when the kids are adults and they've left home, would you still call them a SAHM? Or would you switch to housewife, or unemployed maybe?

If you're going to say 'Well why label them as anything?'

You've been using the label SAHM throughout the thread, so that'll be why.