AIBU to not want to call my daughter’s genitals her vagina?

[BabyEl]

I know, I know, I know….we live in a enlightened age. I know it’s all the rage but vagina just doesn’t sit well with me.

my daughter has started to ask ‘what’s this’ pointing at her ‘bits’ and we need an answer soon!

i know all the arguments, I know “that’s what it’s called!” And “you call an arm an arm” etc but 1) that’s not what it’s called (technically that’s just the inner passage) and 2) when do people really use the word vagina?

do you say “my vagina is a bit sore today” or “oh yeah hubby, my vagina feels so good”

also vulva? No one says that anywhere.

do let’s put those arguments to bed.

secondly, “if you don’t use the real names and god forbid a crime occurs, the case could collapse due to incorrect name use”

I’ve seen this one a lot but I’m sceptical. Is our CPS so dull and dim witted that they will reject a child testimony because she failed to use medical grade terminology? I mean, maybe…? Is there any evidence of this happening?

anyway, I’d don’t like it. I don’t like front bottom, fanny or fufu either. I’m looking for something but not those and not the V word…

am I being unreasonable?

Just use the correct words. Girls learning 'foof' and 'front botty' from their own mothers, fgs. Why be ashamed to use terms that are anatomically correct?

If a child said their uncle was round at the weekend and they played with her china/luby/fairy, you might just take that at face value.

Would you really? I mean MN posters, especially on the Feminism board, expound at length about safeguarding, yet a child telling you about something as frankly bizarre like that wouldn't make you (general you) think (a) why are they telling me that ? and (b) what on earth does that mean?

When I had a daughter I found it hard to use the word Vulva as it was so engrained as an embarrassing word. But I was determined to as it’s correct and no woman should be ashamed of their bodily parts. She’s now 10 and neither of us blink if we use it, she might say, my vulvas really itchy mum, or ‘ow xx just kicked me in the vulva’ and any embarrassment on my part is gone. I feel proud because women need to feel confident in naming their anatomy and not using disneyfied asexual words like Minnie, flower or fairy.

my daughter has started to ask ‘what’s this’ pointing at her ‘bits’ and we need an answer soon!

this begs the question of what have you answered her with….please tell me it’s not ‘when your older’

We say vulva/vagina (depending on which part is under discussion) and penis. once you get into the habit of saying and hearing these terms, they become perfectly ordinary words

Fairy would be a fairy doll surely.
Why would a small child saying that be odd? I can easily see that being brushed off by most people as nothing.

I think the safeguarding thing is a red herring

the bigger issue is women being confident with their genitalia and not feeling the need to minimise with childlike/ magical language such as Fairy or Minnie or the like.

It's generally encouraged that people teach kids the correct terminology for their genitalia these days for safeguarding reasons.

We use vagina in a catchall sense, in the same way as we say "stomachache" even though it is actually your intestines.

I have taught what vagina, vulva etc. mean in the strict sense as well.

I remember being at a baby music class and we were all sitting cross legged on the floor with our babies. One of the women said at the first class 'I should have worn leggings, don't want to show my lady garden'. I had never heard that term until then!! (Or since).

Re the safeguarding thing - one problem is that "vulva" is a difficult word for young children to say clearly.

If a child goes around saying that someone touched her "buh-bah," I'm not sure that's any clearer than her using some bloody silly word like foofah or fairy, in fact I think it might actually be even less clear what she means. At least "vagina" is pretty clear.

i think using a name you're happy with for every day use, like foof, bits, privates..etc is fine, as long as you also teach the proper anatomical name and that they need to use vulva/labia when speaking to adults if there is a problem.

On a pedantic note regarding correct anatomical names and euphemisms how people get pain in their 'tummy', doctors might say they need to examine your 'back passage', males have balls, patellellas are kneecaps etc. There is only one 'translation' and lack of ambiguity for these parts i suppose, so I assume it's this that makes the difference, or it is it their sexual nature?

A luby? A china? What the hell is a luby? And a china? Cockney rhyming slang? Even if you thought "fairy" meant a fairy doll, you wouldn't have the slightest pause to wonder what am I being told?

Sorry but this insistence on you must use anatomically correct names being so determinedly attached to "otherwise no one will know what you're talking about" doesn't sit well with me.

i also don't think teaching 'vagina' as a catch all is ok either.
bruising/hurting your vulva/labia is VERY different from telling someone you bruised/tore/cut your vagina.

Kids say confusing things that don't make sense sometimes. I've not heard luby or china but very common ones definitely could be dismissed when they are actually a disclosure.

We use vagina in a catchall sense, in the same way as we say "stomachache" even though it is actually your intestines.

But it could be your abdominal wall- a muscle Strain for example!🤪
(Of course the principle is the same).

I bet she doesn’t call her fingers by the correct terminology. Or her big toe, elbow or shoulder for that matter.

The problem with terms for the female genitalia is that unlike male genitalia it’s missing a colloquial term that is understood by everyone that isn’t a) twee or b) wildly inappropriate for use by young children. Fanny is probably about as close as it gets. Unless you are in the US.

I would think she meant you might see some stray pubic hair poking out of her underwear, if someone said 'lady garden' I would think she meant that rather than her actual vulva,

@RafaistheKingofClay Fanny is wildly inappropriate. I used to the other day (hangover from the 90s) and my daughter was shocked and asked what it meant.

I actually think front bottom/back bottom is a more accurate and equitable term than "vagina" as it describes the groin area of both males and females.

From a safeguarding point of view, if a child said to a teacher that their uncle makes them hold his front bottom sometimes to make him happy, I think they would be understood.

Using anatomical terms can sometimes stimulate a curious child's interest and prompt web searches. Unfiltered internet is often accessible through older sibings or friend's devices, or parent's devices that have not had child safe features enabled. Harmless searches out of curiosity can lead to exposure to pornograhy at a early age - which can do massive damage to a child.

A child entering "girl front bottom naked" would get very different (not erotic) results to "girl vulva naked" or girl "girl vagina naked" so there is an argument for using emphemisms

"Vulva" should be used by puberty so that discoveries are not being made through peers who may unknowingly perputate dysfucntional or degrading attitudes to female puberty and genitalia

Raising a girl is full of minefields!

Surely what we're calling it for our children has less importance on safety/safeguarding than the conversations we're having with them about it and how, whatever your name for it is, they are our PRIVATE parts. Time and time again you hear stories of survivors of childhood SA where the perpetrator is a male family member e.g. a father and they say things like 'I just thought that was normal for dads to do that'. Whatever we call it - mini, foofoo, vagina - we instill in them that these are our PRIVATE parts and there is a sense of importance in that - and that absolutely no one is allowed to touch them and if they do, you must, must tell mummy/other named trusted adult.

Exactly. The colloquial term that can’t be fitted into either of those categories doesn’t exist. Nobody would bat an eyelid at a small child using willy or balls rather than penis or testicles.

I felt similarly to @BabyEl my LO is 2.5 and we currently say her bits, but this thread has convinced me I should use the correct words. I’m just wondering when to start? I admit I do feel a bit uncomfortable about prospect of my daughter bellowing vulva at some point but realise this is my insecurity

"my daughter has started to ask ‘what’s this’ pointing at her ‘bits’ and we need an answer soon!"

This part of the OP's post bothers me. The easiest and most organic way of teaching kids about their bodies and, one day, sex, is to give them answers whenever they ask in a straightforward, honest and age-appropriate way. Acting embarrassed or reluctant when they ask questions or telling them you'll tell them when they are older leads to them finding out on the playground. They'll be misinformed, have a sense of misplaced shame around it and/or just never trust you to give them answers to their questions.

I have not RTWT so am probably repeating what people have said but "foof" (OMFG) etc is actually the more embarrassing terminology these days.

Cut the shame!

Just practise saying vaingina/vulva - you'll get used to it and it won't seem weird. My DCs use those words and penis/anus etc no problem. We might have a chuckle over it but we all know what is being referred to.