AIBU to not want to call my daughter’s genitals her vagina?

[BabyEl]

I know, I know, I know….we live in a enlightened age. I know it’s all the rage but vagina just doesn’t sit well with me.

my daughter has started to ask ‘what’s this’ pointing at her ‘bits’ and we need an answer soon!

i know all the arguments, I know “that’s what it’s called!” And “you call an arm an arm” etc but 1) that’s not what it’s called (technically that’s just the inner passage) and 2) when do people really use the word vagina?

do you say “my vagina is a bit sore today” or “oh yeah hubby, my vagina feels so good”

also vulva? No one says that anywhere.

do let’s put those arguments to bed.

secondly, “if you don’t use the real names and god forbid a crime occurs, the case could collapse due to incorrect name use”

I’ve seen this one a lot but I’m sceptical. Is our CPS so dull and dim witted that they will reject a child testimony because she failed to use medical grade terminology? I mean, maybe…? Is there any evidence of this happening?

anyway, I’d don’t like it. I don’t like front bottom, fanny or fufu either. I’m looking for something but not those and not the V word…

am I being unreasonable?

Not everyone has your level of education or understanding, though, or indeed the capacity/capability to process new information as it is received. I’m glad that you do, but that unfortunately isn’t the case for a lot of my patients. Some people do also know the correct terms, but don’t wish to use them for whatever reason. Coming to a sexual health appointment can be stressful enough for some without leaving feeling silly or embarrassed for not knowing what I’m talking about, or spending the appointment preoccupied with trying to interpret anatomical terms but not wanting to ask for clarification to the point that they don’t retain anything I’ve said. If I can communicate that ‘XYZ is the problem, and this is what I can do to help’ in a way that the patient understands, using the problem they have presented with as a teaching opportunity does not usually add anything to the outcome or their experience.

We also don’t send any letters (sexual health works very differently to GP/hospital) so the patient leaves with a verbal diagnosis/treatment plan, unless they request I write anything down for them, so I need to make sure they understand it before they leave. My documentation could be brought up in a court of law and the correct terminology would be found throughout, but the language I used at the appointment for the patient’s benefit and understanding may not have been the exact same words, yet communicated in the most appropriate way for them to understand.

Deliberately using correct anatomical terms just because they are correct isn’t always the right thing to do as it depends on the needs and preferences of the actual patient in front of you.

But ones vulva/ vagina is nothing like ones buttocks! Bottom is widely understood as referring to buttocks. A vulva is most definitely not the same body part only on one’s “front”. What an utterly bizarre use of terminology 🥴

But surely you realise that a 13yo calling it that is unusual and would likely get taken the piss out of. Teens are mean so most of us parents balance teaching scientific words with acceptable slang/ colloquial speech.

Exactly. I've given birth twice, had one miscarriage, and had various smear apps plus colp apps. Not once have I ever seen the word vulva in all of the literature you get given from the NHS.

Looks like this perfectly reasonable discussion has touched some sort of nerve for @Ohdoboreoff doesn’t it? 😳

As 'vagina' is the name for the internal organs (as you know), why are silly people calling their little girls' 'thingies' ('vulvas', actually!) by that name (the vulva being the name for the visible external organs)?

Completely agree that to the use the word 'vulva', even if correct, is pretty cringe. Too anatomical. And I agree with you about the alternative terminology: I hate all the terms, too. Especially 'my bits'. Eg ''Sophie - stop touching your bits!''😬🤑

Someone I once knew (a Kiwi) taught her little daughter to refer to her vulva as her 'pussy', which struck me as WRONG..😱Her daughter used to shout, sometimes in public, 'Mummy, my pussy's itchy!', which always made me blush...😳

The Italians have much 'better'/'cuter' terms. One I really like is 'patata' (potato). Eg oval and soft. It's used for both girls and women. And there's nothing anatomical OR sleazy/'adult' about it.

If you think about it, most of the names for men's penises are either crude (dick, cock, prick) or men's names (eg John Thomas). Willy (an abbreviation of William) is the 'best', I think, for little boys. But would sound a bit weird if a middle-aged man used it ('S* my willy!').

So I suppose that Fanny (a girl's name) is the parallel equivalent of Willy, so why aren't we happy with that? Fanny - meet Willy! (At least for little girls and little boys).😀

It may be bizarre but it is what is - and that is accepted and widely used thus not presenting a safeguarding hazard.

I advocate the use of 'vulva' for our groin area as that is the correct anatomical term - unlike 'vagina' - however if one must use a euphemism while a child is very young, let it be a euphemism that is widely understood. 'Front bottom' - as bizarre as it may sound - meets that criteria

My 6 year old girls know the difference betwixt vulva and vagina and use them both, rather than cutesy little euphemisms.
Were you ever raped as a child, OP? I was. Innumerable times. Thus, me teaching my daughters about the correct words for their body, consent, bodily autonomy etc come from the little girl that I was that had no words for those parts and who was not believed.
So, you use whatever pretty names you like to help your daughter's vocabulary around her body.
Words have power and I'd far rather equip my daughters as best as I can to understand, protect and celebrate their bodies than use reductive words to 'prettify' things for them.

A child entering "girl front bottom naked" would get very different (not erotic) results to "girl vulva naked" or girl "girl vagina naked" so there is an argument for using emphemisms

@FrauPaige just did it and got porn hub first followed by a site on up skirting ‘damp panties’ so try again!!

Yes I see what you mean that’s fair enough, but safeguarding isnt the only issue at hand here.
This is about using helpful descriptive terminology to : foster accurate understanding of one’s body parts; eliminate harmful social norms (eg shame around female body parts); promote good hygiene practices; enable effective communication around issues related to health/ medicine , safeguarding etc. the terminology of “front bottom” is not particularly helpful for most of these purposes.

I've been numerous hospitals and seen multiple doctors,none have every used correct terms , if I changed doctors I wouldn't see anyone!

The issue around child abuse isn't just that it's harder to secure a conviction when a child uses euphemisms. It's that child abusers usually choose their victims very, very carefully and are generally less likely to abuse a child who uses the correct anatomical terms. Because a child using proper terms is a very strong indicator that the child has a parent who is open to continuous discussion of uncomfortable topics and is therefore harder to groom.

I agree with you. This is precisely why I advocate the use of 'vulva' - but for those that won't go there for whatever reason, front bottom is the only euphemism I would condone

It's not that no erotic results would be returned searching for 'girl naked front bottom' as opposed to 'girl naked vulva' or 'girl naked vagina', but significantly fewer.

Run your test again - this time as an image search - and see what the images are that are returned on your screen for each search.

I won't invite you to post a screenshot for obvious reasons.

Again, I am a big 'vulva' advocate so you are preaching to the choir. However, life is not black and white but gradients of grey - some people may need a euphemism for whatever reason for a given period of time. This is an example of a potential benefit of that approach

Okay, in your example you don’t send letters. Fine. I was actually replying initially to a different poster who said their doctor and gynaecologist did not use the correct terminology. The hospitals I am dealing with definitely do and if they are being examined using one terminology that they are comfortable with, I can guarantee when they get a letter for a referral or treatment, the hospital won’t be widely referring to it as frou -frou /flower/front bottom/bits. So I believe it’s important to start using the correct terms across the board, from a safe-guarding point of view too. Of course not everyone has the same level of education, that’s part of my point, it becomes very confusing, so if schools/nurseries/doctors/sexual health clinics make it all less stigmatised too, would be a big help moving forward, especially with the next generation. Let’s take the stigma out of using the correct terms and as another PP posted, words have power.

But surely you realise you can have a more nuanced conversations with a child? I taught my children the correct terms as soon as they had language and needed the vocabulary. But I also told them that some people use other words. They also know that lots of people use the word vagina when they mean vulva. It’s really not hard. We’ve discussed this from year R. These things can be spoken about in a manner of fact, age appropriate manner. I’m sure all parents who use the correct terms also acknowledge this.

I call it her genitals rather than a cutesy nickname. I wouldn't use vagina as it is technically incorrect. I do know what you mean though vulva feels rude somehow

This thread is full of people who say vulva. What is wrong with saying wipe your vulva? I say vital to my 2 year old. Avoiding saying it embues it with a sense of shame.

@PiggleToes Yes, that's right. @AnnieSnap Using 'vagina' to refer to the vulva often leads to people not applying prescription medicinal creams correctly, not describing concerns to GPs correctly, and also not practicing correct personal hygiene. Vulva for the win

I am so sorry that happened to you

When a little boy refers to his "ding-dong" everyone knows he means his doo-dah. Same applies to a girl using nunny or foo-foo or whatever.

ding dong doo dah?! WTF?! Are we on teletubbies now?!

Safeguarding works both ways, though. If I have an under 16 coming to me disclosing a sexual assault (which unfortunately happens very frequently), I will do everything in my power to make their experience in clinic as stress-free as possible so as not to compound their trauma by ‘teaching’ them words that won’t mean anything to them at the time, and which won’t change what’s happened to them. I might not get the full picture if I’m asking things that someone doesn’t understand, so important things might be missed. However, if I use layman’s terms when communicating with someone who needs me to do that, I might one day pick up on a key piece of information that could well be the difference between getting a case through court successfully or it being dropped.

If they want to say ‘bits’ or whatever, I am not going to add to their stress by introducing unfamiliar words that they have to ask for clarification on when they’ve got enough to deal with.

I have a lot of experience in my field, and it’s really not as clear cut as you think it is.

My GP says “ down below.”

Yes, my female gynaecologist does too.