Take the plunge now or wait until secondary? Tearing my hair out and at loggerheads with DP

[Munneyworries]

Me and DP started saving for DD’s school fees when she was born. She’s due to go to school next September and we should have 100k saved by then. The school we are looking at is 18k a year for prep (including VAT), rising to 24k (including vat) at secondary level (obviously may be more by the time she starts secondary).

DP is adamant that she should start next year and our plan that we use 10k drawn down from savings per year and the rest from income. His argument is that the surplus needed from income equates to the same as the nursery fees per month that we have been paying and things have been fine.

I get where he is coming from but I just don’t feel we have enough buffer yet. I don’t want to put her in and then take her out etc. The local primary school is not good in terms of reputation for teaching etc but it is a nice place and friendly and I don’t think it will cause her harm to go there.

We have been arguing about this constantly since viewing the prep school this last week and DP wanting to basically sign up to it immediately. I feel so stressed and don’t want to make a mistake for dd who realistically won’t know the difference between the two schools regardless of which one she starts at.

I would wait. I've taught in private and state primaries.
The difference is mainly the class sizes and extra-curricular activities within school.
The class size is an advantage but most kids are absolutely fine in a class of 30. Where it can make a real difference is if a child has additional needs or struggles with aspects of school, possibly due to neurodiversity. If your child does not have additional needs they will be absolutely fine in a class of 30 at primary school.

You can make sure they have access to extra-curricular activities outside of school if they go to state primary. And anyway, lots of state primaries do have some clubs going on. You can pay for private music lessons, take your child to sports' clubs, dance, language, whatever they are interested in. They do not need to be at a private school to have access to good opportunities like this.

I would suggest you discuss compromising on your child going to state school until the end of KS1 and then reassessing the situation then.
You really would be better off saving the money now and making sure you have enough to ensure all years of secondary are covered and possibly KS2 if you can manage that too.

Yes class size is one of his main arguments. There are currently 8 pupils in the private class (first year) compared with 31 in the statue primary and the years groups are merged so it’s age 4-7 in one class. That part did worry me a bit but not enough to not save the best part of 50k which we may well need later on

It is still good to consider how it would be funded if you split

8 is too small imo

A lovely nurturing State school should be fine for her early years- If you get a good feeling from the State, trust your instincts.

Your husband probably worries about your Daughter picking up 'local accents' {?}- I can't see any other reason for his insistence on Prep school at such a young age.

Mum used to live near a prep school - it looked no different to the very nice local state primary where brothers went - and Tim Berners ~Lee, the inventor of WWW.

State primary certainly didn't hold him back!

My DD did her final teacher placement at a private school year 5. The children were behind all other year 5’s she had been with at other state school placements, the behaviour was not brilliant, yes fewer students per class but not as much maths and English as state schools as they can set own curriculum. The dining facilities were amazing as were extra curricular opportunities (paid in addition). Plenty of trips though.
Logically all the teachers are trained at the same universities, so apart from class sizes the main difference is parents earnings. 🤣🤣 Also no Ofsted and no fines for taking kids out in term time, oh and in secondary they sit easier GCSEs.

I agree with this. 8 is both not enough for the children and also not enough for the school to sustain itself unless heavily subsidised by the older year groups.

8 is far too small.
I'd be worried that a) the school does not have enough pupils to ensure a sustainable future and b) there would be friendship issues in such a small group.
I was thinking of class sizes around 15 - 18 in the private school which is a nice size.

State school plus "private school" extra curriculars should be more than enough for primary school. Get her into riding, hockey, skiing, ballet, classical music, cricket, and languages outside of school and she won't be behind peers if you decide to opt for private at secondary.

"Easier GCSEs" please elaborate? How can the same exam boards as state be easier unless you are claiming that exam boards are more lenient with kids at indy schools? Which of course is ridiculous

My Dcs have been at a private school since the age of 3. For DS1 it was really required because he has a range of SEN that could not be catered for at our state options. DS2 was because that was where DS1 went. But looking back for DS2 it was a total waste of money.

Honestly- if I were in your situation I would use a state primary (if decent and meets your needs) and move in year 7. You save so so much money and if the differences are marginal at best I'd be saving that cost.

I’ve done state primary until end of year 6 and the private from year 7 (ie for secondary) with one (eldest) and then state until end of year 2, and then private from year 3 (ie7+ which is a very normal private school entry point) with the younger two as by then we were earning more so could. The school is all through 7+ to end of sixth form and they’re all at the same school…

In my experience, 7+ has definitely been the best option. The 11+ start was tough.. she’d never had homework, never studied different sciences or languages, not done the private school sports like hockey etc (just done random generic PR at primary) and so on. She settled fast and was / is fine but the younger ones really were better off starting at 7+.

I was about to type ‘go for it’ after our very successful experiences with kids at private primary / prep schools . Personally I think it gives them a brilliant start .
However the class sizes here are ridiculously small. How on earth can on teacher teacher 4-7 year olds at the same time. Their needs are streets apart. I wouldn’t want to send my children to such a tiny school.
My son really suffered with just 11 boys in a mixed school in year 7. He didn’t find his tribe. There is definitely a happy medium with class sizes.

There is this ongoing myth that private schools do easier GCSes. It's crap. They often do iGCSEs which are recognised world wide including by the very biggest and most exclusive universities like Cambridge and Oxford etc. But some people on Mn have this bee in their bonnets about private schools somehow gaming the system by having looser standards.

Some private schools do iGCSEs rather than GCSEs. The evidence as to which is harder is a bit unclear. I'll leave you to Google it.

Primary school is where they learn to read, so you need to be sure they are teaching reading - it's a complex and difficult art. Primary is also the foundation for maths etc. I wouldn't pay for pre-school (yipes, 18k is some people's entire income!) but bear in mind that entrance to schools outside the state sector is not only down to money - entrance exams exist, for example.

I'm perfectly aware thanks. Most indy schools offer both though. IGCSE's are accepted internationally whereas GCSE's aren't. So it isn't the case at all that indy schools offer "easier" GCSEs.

Just a different angle here. Costs are obviously crazy and my daughter’s school is a lot less per year/term. However, now she is nearing the end of prep, it is hard for pupils from ‘outside’ the private school system to simply slot in. I mean obviously in academic terms, there are stringent exams the further up the school you enter, but also socially and mentally. It’s not for everyone and having been in that private school system from the start is a huge advantage.

I disagree completely! Prep from 8 (year 3) will give her SUCH a good grounding in the three Rs which will stay with her for life.

Yes, same in the small town I’m in.

… it’s one of the main reasons that at least three pupils in my youngest child’s year at primary came in from the prep school - one because she was one of only two girls in her year group and they didn’t really get on, two boys because they were both sporty and the prep just didn’t have the numbers for teams without having too big an age spread plus of course the obvious issues with the social side with such a tiny group - friendships and fallouts very much magnified, not enough of a group for children to find their people (or indeed fade into the background).

Primary is as much about social skills as anything else. Think hard about your child being in a unchanging group of 8 for a year. It’s definitely not an advantage!

In fact the reverse is true. iGCSEs are a LOT harder than GCSEs. Far more difficult content

Consider if you are planning on just 1 child...If you only are having 1 then this may work but if you are planning on any more it won’t work financially.

Are there good selective state schools at a senior level that would be a target IF not then how much are the senior school fees and can you afford them as well?

Fees are just the start of private school costs - there are uniforms, balls and other fundraisers, holidays and trips...add 35% on to the fees for these additional costs.

Fees generally rise by 5-10% per year and once at senior level they rise again.

You will need a minimum £25-35k in today's money to cover 3 years at university in order to top up the loans provided- more if they decide to study for longer for medicine and other degrees. Your child will need to support to buy a house £50-100k in today’s money.

If you can afford holidays, cars, entertaining and everything else comfortably then if its something you like then go for it but dont start something you cant afford to keep up.

… incidentally, I’ve one other friend who is ‘lucky’ enough to have her children in a small and exclusive school, same kind of numbers. She’d also trade for a larger, less hothoused, less scrutinised experience for her kids. However it’s the only school on their remote island, so she’s stuck 🤣

Independent schools are still inspected. There’s just a different regulatory body.
And ‘easier’ GCSE?? What a load of bollocks.
@Munneyworries
8 is too small for a sustainable class size.
Does this increase as they get older or is this school undersubscribed?
I’d look very carefully at how financially viable and sustainable this school is. The increase in VAT in fees is likely to have a negative impact on small prep schools. You could end up in a scenario where this school is closing in 2 years time.
Another reason why I would suggest you wait a few years. Watch what happens when VAT comes in and then look at what’s still available!

Wow… 8 in a class is far too small from a social perspective. But 31 DC of mixed ages from 4-7 is not ideal either. I’m guessing it’s a tiny village school? I think you need to look a third option.