To think parents nowadays are just weak

[Alberta56]

Not sure is it just me but I feel like most parents are just soft and incapabble to discipline their own kids. I constantly see topics here and not only about small kids doing what they want - screaming, tantrums, wanting stuff and parents are just so helpless. When I go on the tube kids screaming putting their dirty feet on the seats. At home kids not wanting to eat and parents act like they own a restaurant immediately cooking something else. What's wrong with saying NO, or ""keep quiet" or " you eat whats available or "you go and play alone while mommy reads a book for 1 h". Why are parents constantly trying to keep kids entertained and spend a fortune on stupid activities. Worst thing is that I see young colleagues 18/ 19 years old coming to work and are just incapable of being a human - constantly late, all the time have to think about their feelings and emotions can't even complain to HR when they're not doing their job properly....I just don't get it really. I'm about to be a mom myself and if I need i will discipline my kid with firm approach non of that " let them express themselves" cr@p.

The old ways of parenting did a lot of damage, it’s just that a lot of people can’t see it
There wasn't A parenting way then as there isn't ONE now. However, my experience of growing up in the 70/80s is nothing like described here. It certainly wasn't a case of not being heard, or being scared of my parents. My parents were very cool as was my friends' parents. The overall principles though were:

• we were not the centre of the world and we had to accept there were adults led times and decisions as well as children's.
• we were expected to respect authority even if we didn't understand or agree with their request. We could ask politely for an explanation. We couldn't have tantrums, act bratish, beg and pester on and on until we got our way.

As for all those posts about OP facing reality. I don't get it. Are these posters implying that they had similar principles before but failed to apply then afterwards? That's on them. Many parents manage absolutely fine to raise their kids as they intended. Of course there is always an element of picking your battles, but principles remain and are applied as intended, even if much harder than expected.

Are you a parent @vivainsomnia ?

I wonder if a lot of people are saying “good luck”/“come back in 2 years” etc etc not because of what you’ve said but because of how you’ve said it. I don’t disagree with the majority of what you’re saying but the problem is you’re kind of saying it like “why don’t people just do (blank) in parenting, it’s so easy” and, to be blunt, it makes you sound critical, smug and foolish. I know this isn’t what you said directly but it comes across in the tone and sentiment of your post. It also doesn’t help your case that you’ve included some ridiculous ideas of good parenting alongside the genuinely good ones that are worth fighting for - like the idea of telling your kid to go play for AN HOUR so mummy can read. So when I say “come back in a few years” I believe there’s every chance you will have stuck to the principles and convictions you are describing, I’m not suggesting it’s not possible to parent like this. But I think your attitude will have changed because you’ll see parenting is incredibly difficult and it’s not just as simple as picking your style of parenting and off you go.

I have to somewhat agree, I have children and honestly it frustrates me to no end how I see how a lot of children speak to their parents.

However parenting on a whole is hard, the hardest job in the world and I don’t like mum/parent shaming as I think most of us are really just out here doing our best

@Busted2006 Unfortunateky it’s too easy to notice the DC who are not asked to stop screaming, stop kicking, stop interrupting, stop whinging etc . Most DC are perfectly ok to be around. Some are not and the parents are oblivious to the noise and poor manners their dc have. I’m not talking about send dc, just the few who have parents who have never said NO and mean it. Eg you cannot have a snack now. You can have one when we get home. Or NO: you cannot scream like that. Screaming seems a more common form of “communication” now. Some parents never say “be quiet”. They ignore it whilst everyone else puts up with it.

You should wait until your child is born before you pass judgement on other parents. Yes I agree that some parents should be more firm but it's not all as easy as you imply. Sometimes parents just need to take the easy way out to prevent tantrums to save their sanity.

🤣

@Sorrelia, I am, two young adults who I raised on my own working FT.

Was it hard? Very! How many times did I want to just let them get away with bad behaviour rather than challenge them, how many times did I want to give them what they wanted for peace and quiet....but I didn't and gradually it became easier. They were brilliant teenagers, never had one problem with them, teachers were always full of praise.

What helped is that I'm naturally quite stubborn 😁

@Alberta56

I don't know if you're new to Mumsnet, but there are numerous people that insist that it's simply impossible to raise a child that doesn't go apeshit in a cafe and that anybody claiming their kids understand social convention is a liar.

There was a thread a while back from a mother who's child was choosing to soil himself at school rather than use the school toilets (he was completely potty trained at home). Simple suggestions, such as using the school holidays to encourage him to move his poos to a different time of the day, were dismissed as impossible with grown adults declaring they had zero bowel control so how could a child have it!

I think there's just a reluctance to admit that they're the reason their kids behave the way they do.

That’s lovely for you. My dad also believed in the need for kids to respect authority. Which in his mind was never disagreeing with a thing he said unless we wanted a hard smack.

I grew up to be what you would definitely call a nice kid. Certainly in adult company. A nice kid With loads of unresolved issues.

I don’t raise my kids in the same way I was raised. I still have lovely, high achieving, polite intelligent kids. They’re teenagers now. But they aren’t terrified to express their opinion either. And they do it really well with reasoned arguments because they don’t feel their thoughts mean nothing. It doesn’t mean I give into their every wish either but we talk about it.

As teenagers they (at least seem to be!) very open with me as they know I’ll listen without prejudice. Whereas I was a nice kid (in adult company) that made dangerous and stupid mistakes behind my parents back.

So many many many times I've seen the children of very strict parents go completely off the rails as they get up to all sorts of risky behaviour behind their parents' back - in a might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb scenario. Demanding unquestioning obedience can be so counter-productive and is generally unrealistic. If you're overly strict your children won't trust your judgment and can end up being overly susceptible to peer pressure, lying and keeping secrets as they'll want to develop their own lives and if that includes elements you forbid without further discussion then so be it.

Those binge watching, the two additions…interesting.

But there's a great difference between being very strict and letting kids run riot.

I would not allow running about screaming anywhere never mind in public places, the same with rudeness to adults. But my kids were allowed to express their opinions and certainly were never smacked

Strangely both my DDs are bringing their kids up in a similar style.

My dc are now late 20s and mid-30s.
Yes, I've shouted at them if they misbehaved as kids, raised a hand to the eldest - once, but never felt a need to do it ever again. If one of them said or did something I didn't like once they got to about the age of 6, I only ever had to give them a 'look' and they knew to change their attitudes.
We had rules in place and they grew up knowing that if they stuck to those rules, I'd be fair with them and they'd get certain freedoms.
They were both friendly, polite, helpful, conscientious kids, had hobbies but weren't the 'playing outside with friends' types, which I believe helped to bolster their 'good kids' image because it seemed that it was the outdoorsy kids that always seemed to be in trouble and cheeking/backchatting teachers/everyone in the area.
I do agree with the OP to a certain degree, not so much on the 'weak' point, but I do see a lot of pussy-footing around kids and adults making what the kids want their priorities, as opposed to setting rules and acceptable standards.
It does worry me that we're heading towards a generation of kids who rule their parents, and that scares the living daylights out of me!

Ahh the famous MN 'look' .

Mine all played out with the neighbours kids. Bonus MN bad kid points for growing up on a council estate. Funnily enough they all grew up to be amazing adults with good jobs etc.

That’s lovely for you. My dad also believed in the need for kids to respect authority. Which in his mind was never disagreeing with a thing he said unless we wanted a hard smack
It sounds like your father was abusive. Mine were not and neither was I. Respecting authority doesn't mean getting smacked if you raise an objection.

It means that you learn that some people know better than you because they have more experience and knowledge. It means accepting that as a child, you are not always right, that your wants don't trump everything and that ultimately, you do have to do as told, even if it is sometimes unfair because indeed, it teaches you that life is unfair at times and that you need to learn to move on.

Actually, I’m afraid you get good kid points for that one… it’s well known now that kids need to be outside playing with their mates without adult supervision to bolster their resilience. Too much structured adult-supervised time is really bad for them

Of course it means he was abusive. But no one questioned it because so many other parents thought nothing of a wallop. They weren’t judging him on frequency, his reasons for doing so or the force behind the smacks.

Smacking was acceptable. He smacked. Society thought that was fine.

Also you say you learn to respect people because they have more experience and knowledge. On that basis children don’t ever get a voice. Adults don’t always get things right. They should be challenged if they make a mistake and they should be apologised to if an adult makes a mistake. Blind respect of authority isn’t always the right way. Blind respect of authority can easily lead to abuse.

good luck with that! was my intention also.. I didn't make the modern world but it is what it is... i wish you the best!

just make sure to have a second child quick- that will def help this issue, short and long term (and bring you joy...)

shoes off is a 'basic thing'? certainly reasonable but not standard in the UK (if that's where you live?)...

I think this sums it up for me.

Hi, in my experience incorrect (3 kids all in primary school, 8, 10, 11). Definitely more bound by school rules than at home!

You laugh, but when I was pregnant with my second and really struggling with tiredness I used to tell my then 2-year-old “Mummy’s having a rest now” and I’d lie on the sofa and she would play quietly. I did have the occasional interruption but generally it was fine. Oh, and btw, she’s ND.

And not just lucky either — I did it again with no.2 when pregnant with my third!

It’s about expectations. If they know from an early age that sometimes Mummy is busy/tired and they are expected to play quietly for a bit, they generally will.

As MN would say, why are your standards so low? 😂