Fiancé has agreed to be a Guarantor - I’m not happy

[workworkbloodywork]

Not sure if I’m being highly unreasonable or fully entitled to be majorly fucked off with him.

His sister has asked him to be a guarantor on a rental that they want to upsize to as the partner has recently gone self employed.

he initially asked if I would be too but I was overseas at the time as I asked for us to discuss it when I was home.

he then said that we weren’t needed as they found someone. That then fell through and so they asked if just DF would do it. Again said let’s discuss when I’m home.

ive found out today that they have a moving date and have been packing. Turns out DF has agreed to do it without any communication to me.

so YABU - it’s family, you should think twice and just sign to dotted line asap

or YANBU - as an engaged couple, decisions that affect your family unit should be discussed at length before concluding on a decision together.

So we had a good old chat tonight, the BIL apparently walked off, was shirty and could barely look at him, his sister and him have shared WhatsApps this evening and all seems well between them.
it remains to be seen on how they will be with me.
they apparently have someone else that has agreed to do, I have asked him to see if he can get any confirmation to say that they are not going to use him as the guarantor as he had signed the document but they supposedly have someone else foolish enough to agree to be it instead.
Once he has provided this written confirmation I believe we can move on from this.
he is a good man with a good heart and I feel has certainly learnt a hard lesson.

Why can't he get the document he signed back? Or get confirmation from the entity thst requires the guarantee that he's not listed as a guarantor.

If I was the guarantee holder, I would assume, and argue in court, that any side arrangement between the parties, after the fact, was an attempt to get out of the guarantee.

He hasn't a leg to stand on with a side note from them.

@JennaZ I have more than 20 times that "spare" and that will go up because of inheritance (which I would have never got if I hadn't made my own way as well - that was made clear) and I would never do that because money can never be "spare" really. For example, talking of children's education - my DC's school fees are going to go exponentially from the VAT rise from a very high point to start. I need to know that I can always cope with that bill as well as others.

And by even implying OP could do it she is opening the door to future requests. If my DH's brother (and his partner) had any knowledge of what we really had he would be on the hunt constantly for some kind of support like that. Even as it is him and MIL have implied they should get help from us tho she's not poor and he makes his own bed.

In situations like the one presented, people make their own decisions. They need to take the consequences.

This!

Is there a 14 day cooling off period like with most financial arrangements or is that products only?

The fact that the brother-in-law got shirty is a very strong indication that he felt entitled to money from your fiance op. This guarantor thing was probably a foot in the door with a view to getting further amounts of money out of him.

I think you are far too quick to move on from this.
Why has he not got the document he signed?
I would not be so trusting that this is all over.
I doubt this will be the last time you face this issue.
Naive men are not appealing.
Their stupidity usually has consequences for others.
Not a chance I would allow one to mess up my finances.

No. It’s not a credit agreement so there’s no cooling off period. Also, not many posters seem to be aware the tenancy has to be brought officially to an end to release the guarantor. For an assured shorthold tenancy the term may state 6 or 12 months, but it will not just run out at the expiry of the fixed term. The landlord or tenant must give formal notice to end it or the agreement will continue to run until formal notice is served, so it could theoretically run for years, during which time the guarantor will still be liable.

In OP’s case it’s not clear whether her fiancé has any stake in the house - he’s not on the mortgage but could be on the deeds. In which case if he defaults on the guarantee he could end up with CCJ’s, court costs, visits from bailiffs or a charge put on the property. All of which would financially impact the OP.

I second this. OP I would want to see that document and have it ripped up in front of me. He’s gone behind your back once, are you really about to trust that he won’t do it again. It sounds as though you only have his word for what happened.

There will presumably be stipulations and conditions in any insurance policy and I still wouldn’t want to run the risk of the insurer refusing a payout for whatever reason.

@workworkbloodywork i think your finance lying to you. I’ve just looked it up - you can’t get out of an guarantor arrangement unless the rent agreement has come to an end, or the landlord releases you.

Therefore he can’t just decide not to do it if he has already signed on the dotted line, and the other person who has agreed could actually be him!

Can you clarify whether he has signed t h e document or not?

I have asked him to see if he can get any confirmation to say that they are not going to use him as the guarantor as he had signed the document

Dear god ...

Best hope this "other person who's prepared to do it" really exists, OP, and it's not just a smokescreen so that when if it turns out they've used him he can say "Ooooo it's a misunderstanding; I thought it was going to be someone else"

Ooh, crikey OP, NOT so good! 😱 I would suggest your fiance follow up his meeting with DS and BIL with a WA, text or email saying something along the lines of:
"I'm really sorry to have upset you, but I didn't realise what a serious undertaking being a guarantor was until I did some research and I simply wouldn't have the funds to bail you out, for any length of time, if you were unable to pay your rent (which, of course, I know you wouldn't want to default on but none of us knows what the future could hold). Therefore, would you please return the signed document to me so I can destroy it."
This would make it clear he's PROMPTLY rescinded his agreement - I assume they haven't yet passed this signed guarantee on to the letting agent/landlord and moved in and so he will have rescinded it BEFORE they've been able to use it?
As an aside, the people telling you to dump him, he's shown disdain for you, etc., are being harsh and I really don't think there's any need to be so hard-line. It's like they think people can never learn from their mistakes (but so many of us do!). Yes, he should have waited until you got home before steaming ahead, but he's since listened to you, back-tracked, and taken the heat from his DS (not so much) and BIL (rather a lot). I think this is the perfect spring-board for the future to ensure you make JOINT decisions about finances going forward (I think, if he's able to get the signed agreement back, he'll remember what a lucky escape he had). Good luck!

Normally the guarantor signs the guarantee section of the tenancy agreement at the same time as the tenants. Once that’s signed by all parties it’s a legally binding contract. If it’s a separate deed of guarantee, then the guarantor normally signs it before the tenancy agreement is signed. Once the deed of guarantee is signed it binds the tenant into the tenancy agreement even before they sign - neither party can back out at this point.

Even more concerning is that under English contract law, a contract can be verbal, implied and confirmed by the conduct of the parties involved, so there wouldn’t even be the need for a written and signed tenancy agreement, if the main terms had been agreed and the personal guarantor had been accepted. So it sounds as though ‘another guarantor’ at this point isn’t viable and the fiancé is still liable. I wouldn’t be taking his word for anything at this stage - l think he’s bullshitting because he’s got himself into something he can’t back out of and the implications are only just dawning on him.

... the tenancy has to be brought officially to an end to release the guarantor.

Not necessarily true. This depends on what the guarantee agreement says or what is agreed verbally. Many guarantee agreements are open-ended and will refer to liability 'under this tenancy/agreement'. This means that liability could extend beyond the fixed period, to any extension, as well as to certain changes such as rent increases. However, the guarantee agreement could state the liability exists only for the length of the fixed term. [Source: Citizens Advice]

I would say a high chance they may not be able to afford their rent when one of them has just gone self employed. I would be asking why? Have they been sacked? If it a new business and if so is there any evidence it is viable.

Potentially the fiance has scuppered their chances of getting a mortgage !

"So it sounds as though ‘another guarantor’ at this point isn’t viable and the fiancé is still liable."
Not necessarily. At this point we have no idea if the terms of the guarantee are held within the DS/BIL's tenancy agreement or under a separate document. If the latter, and they haven't yet submitted it to the letting agent/landlord, they can simply tear it up as if it never existed (or they can return it to OP's DF for him to do which will also give him the absolute reassurance they're not using it). OP's DF needs to move fast though (assuming it's not already too late and they've already passed it to the LA/LL).

Oh jeez, it's gone from being a great update to a shit next update. He's signed already, he needs to get straight to the letting agent and put in writing that he's rescinding it. I don't know how this works, but he may need to see a solicitor to help him get released from this. He did not understand what he was signing, I'm fairly sure that's a legal reason for being able to get out of a contract in contract law, but really he needs legal advice ASAP.

I get that the BIL would be pissed off, but really, I find it really odd that they are upsizing at the same time as him going self-employed, unless of course he needed a place with a workshop or something.

Why are they upsizing now? Also I think it's rather sly of them not to make clear the implications when they first asked and then later not to give the document back. Although your DH should have course checked himself as well. Being a guarantor is no small thing; my parents refused for me when I was younger and I don't blame them tbh.

workworkbloodywork · Yesterday 19:47

they apparently have someone else that has agreed to do, I have asked him to see if he can get any confirmation to say that they are not going to use him as the guarantor as he had signed the document but they supposedly have someone else foolish enough to agree to be it instead.

Holy crap! You realise they're going to screw him over, don't you? He needs to Whats App them, asking for confirmation that they won't use him and ask for a copy, then screenshot it.

I assume he knows who the agent is? He should get in touch and tell them he's out.

I’d be getting your fiancé to contact the agent as soon as it opens this morning to officially withdraw his consent. I know what has been said but it may be too late already.

He has signed the document. He may now be legally bound, and can’t just pull out. He needs to understand exactly what has happened to the document he has signed, and what steps are needed in order for it to be terminated. Getting hold of a copy of the document he signed, and details of the agent are the next step.

He needs to find out who the landlord is. It will be the landlord who agrees whether or not to terminate the guarantee.

https://fraserbond.com/blog/article/how-to-remove-yourself-as-a-guarantor-on-a-rental-property-in-the-uk-b7250#:~:text=Communicate%20with%20the%20landlord%2Fletting,guarantor%20for%20the%20rental%20property. This might have some useful information as a starting point.