To think men should understand how unsafe women feel?

[Fraudornot]

So on a works night out and had to get home - I feel unsafe wandering around our large city centre at night on my own to get home. Men who I consider to be fairly aware don’t even think of this as an issue - how to ensure female employees feel safe to get home. What are others experience of this? I’m keen to know what the norm is and if we should all be aware of how women feel getting home after a night out in a city centre. Or should it just be up to us to make sure we can get a taxi. I feel there might well be a pile on about sort yourself out don’t rely on men. But surely we should all ensure the safety of the whole group.

You mean how everyone on here is dismissing women and insisting men are more vulnerable?

The same as how when there are serious issues concerning women and they pop up on those threads to defend men too?

I'd like to live in this same world where all these posters live, where women have no need to be cautious or fearful of men because they pose no risk to them.

You've berated quite a few women yourself!!
No I haven't seen seen anyone say men are more scared. Some people have pointed out that men also feel scared. Something which you seemed to find hard to believe, just as you originally believed more women got attacked than men.
Ma y posters have said male colleagues do consider the safety of people getting home. Where is the evidence that they don't? I still don't see why my colleague should be considering how I get home. I don't consider how they get home, unless it's a colleague I'm friends with then we'll discuss arrangements as mates.

@YellowphantGrey just wanted to say I wholeheartedly agree with everything you’re saying. This thread is madness.

Shit loads of men are concerned about women’s safety, shit loads are not and are dangerous. Some women and men are asshole trouble makers, some women and men are quiet and sensitive, humans are complex and varied, but ultimately not all alike. But these debates concerning the sexes all go the same way mostly. There are loads of men who don’t want to be called up to the armed forces or are scared of violence as another example, same as women, what’s wrong with that being pointed out. Also there are many women who can hold their own and find their way home with confidence, generally the braver of both sexes look out for the ones who are more timid. Most men and women are bothered about each other, a lot of us clearly don’t know the same people grounded in reality!

No I mean you are dismissing men by saying their figures are so highly because of fights, in 9 out of ten fights one side is attacked and does not want to fight so it’s assault and it’s important !!!!

the thread is about the perception of being attacked for being female it is fair conversation to show that men ants statistically more likely to be attacked showing that there should also be a perception that men will get attacked.

I care deeply about women’s safety as I have said I have instructed female self defence for over 20 years. Women can do lots of things to reduce their odds of being attacked and should do.

Sadly just thinking it’s not fair that you don’t feel safe is not going to get anywhere towards reducing the chances of getting attacked or solving the issue.

Why didn’t you get a taxi instead of wandering around on your own. What did you expect your male colleagues to do? How did everyone else get home?

I know right. Why can't we just have one thread where every everyone agrees men are shit

Yet the men and the handmaidens pop over onto women only issue threads and do this all the time and expect women to halt in their tracks and consider them

Still no one will answer anybody my points and just continually talk at me about me not feeling sympathetic for men's fears of being attacked

Statistically, as a sex class, they are shit. Very shit.

But it’s not a women only issue thread if the question is why don’t men consider women’s safety, surely if that’s what is being asked you would want some answers from the group in question if that is true or not. If the question was why don’t women shut the hell up about men not being gallant enough to see them home, I’m sure we should definitely be hearing from women about that to say, actually what are you talking about!

Firstly, you call the women who disagree with you, handmaidens. The women who agree with you are just women. Sorry, we are not handmaidens. We are women with valid opinions. I haven't seen any men disrupting this thread. The few that have posted have been supportive.
Secondly, you say no one will answer your points. I don't think I've ever seen a single poster getting so many people responding to their points!

Well, not all women feel unsafe in a city, for starters.
And, as pointed out, we are all perfectly capable of getting a taxi if we want or need one.
It doesn't help the situation if women start behaving like wilting flowers from the 1950s - we're capable, independent people.

Well said.

It's disappointing to see that some women still hate other women who know their own minds and take responsibility for themselves. They'll throw all sorts of misogynistic names out of their prams, like 'handmaiden'.

MN has got much better over the years, but there are still a few die-hard haters out there.

yup!

But they are handmaidens. There was a post about Gisele Pelicot and it was swarmed with women defending men and insisting women were just as bad as men

There's a current thread about the SRC scandal and there's women on there saying men don't get enough support after rape and women get too much

And on here, the OP asked why men don't consider women's safety and again it's full of women saying men have more to fear than women and that it's women's fault for being helpless yet at the same time, saying that men are fearful of men and some men don't leave the house because of how scared they are of other men.

I've asked multiple times, the following

If men know that other men are to be feared, if they stay at home because they are scared of being attacked, if they worry for their own safety being around other men, them why aren't they aware of the dangers of men to women and women's safety?

No one has said men should be escorting women safely to places or to home but are asking why aren't men concerned about the safety of women, if other men are this thing they also fear?

I even said it's down to me to get myself safely home and our group checks that everyone got home safe. Dh and his male friends don't because they assume they will and it doesn't register with them that women can potentially be more vulnerable.

We can't even trust taxi drivers 100% it's difficult to trust male police officers, you can't trust male strangers, you can't even always trust the men in your life.

But the sheer amount of posters on here who are minimising women's feelings and prioritising men over them, is what makes them handmaidens that prop up the patriarchy.

I don't accept that men are more fearful of men than women are. Women have always been disadvantaged and continue to be disadvantaged by this patriarchal and mysoginistic world and women posters telling other women posters that they are weak or feeble or wall flowers or any other belittling phrase, really need to stop and do better.

It's infuriating that women have to put aside their experiences to make it easier for men and are berated and ridiculed for not following the patriarchal party line

But this whole "woman have to love and support and agree with all women and be kind and not hate them" is just bullshit.

Why, as a woman, do I have to be kind and accepting of another woman who actively chooses to support the system that oppresses me?

If I don't agree with someone telling me that men are more fearful of men than women are, why am I not allowed to say that actually no, that's not correct? Why do I have to keep quiet?

Why are their so many women defending and sticking up for men, all over posts that relate to womens issues but I'm considered the hateful one?

How does it benefit you to support mysoginistic ways as opposed to not supporting them and instead, challenging them to make womens voices heard and their rights to be considered for once, rather than women having to continually fight to be heard because men are always prioritised?

Why, as a woman, do I have to be kind and accepting of another woman who actively chooses to support the system that oppresses me?

You don't.

But you might just aim to be mature enough to cut the misogynistic name calling, towards women who are independent enough to look after their own safety on a night out.

Or not...

When my kids started going out on their own I always told them to have: "Keys, phone, plan to get home'.

SleepToad · Yesterday 18:10

As a man I do understand what the op is saying. But works nights outs are optional. You can get a taxi to pick you up from the door. I part own a bar and we pay for taxis for female staff at night to get home.

As the mother of a young man who has worked in hospitality through uni, I’d have a big problem with you. At knocking 6ft 5 with a very gentle nature he’s a bloody magnet for drunken dickheads on the street late at night trying to look tough.

Thankfully, he drives but if he didn’t I would expect you to pay for a taxi for all of your young staff to get home, and older staff if they felt they wanted it.

Sexism cuts both ways.

Even if they are handmaidens of the patriarchy?

They aren't supporting feminism by doing this are they?

Again, why can't I not challenge a system that oppresses me?

The problem is all men and too many women upholding patriarchy

I used to have an evening minimum wage job in a theatre in London. The house manager (a guy) was fully aware that we were having to go home at midnight and didn't have money for taxis home. He organised training for us to give us more confidence, give advice and defend ourselves in case the worst happened. Luckily nothing ever did while I was there - I think we were all pretty city- savvy. But it was something I appreciated anyway.

If your idea of 'challenging' is petty name calling towards other women, that's your prerogative.

But don't be surprised if you get left out of grown up conversations.

But I've challenged people on here without calling them names and instead they've just decided to continue yelling into an echo chamber that women aren't as fearful of men as men are.

You are upholding the patriarchy and using all the negatives used to describe women against me, knowingly or not and it's embarrassing

Isn't it odd that women who say they aren't afraid are called handmaidens which sounds rather feeble. Where else does the fearless person get called something like that?

Were men included in the training?