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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think men should understand how unsafe women feel?

300 replies

Fraudornot · 13/09/2024 23:13

So on a works night out and had to get home - I feel unsafe wandering around our large city centre at night on my own to get home. Men who I consider to be fairly aware don’t even think of this as an issue - how to ensure female employees feel safe to get home. What are others experience of this? I’m keen to know what the norm is and if we should all be aware of how women feel getting home after a night out in a city centre. Or should it just be up to us to make sure we can get a taxi. I feel there might well be a pile on about sort yourself out don’t rely on men. But surely we should all ensure the safety of the whole group.

OP posts:
bragpuss · 14/09/2024 12:07

I think this time men are not culpable.

You have to pick your battles and this isn't one you can win.

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 12:09

Anothernamechane · 14/09/2024 12:02

No I don’t need a man to take care of me and make sure I’m escorted home. What I need is for men not to attack me in the street

Which is not what the thread is about

Anothernamechane · 14/09/2024 12:11

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 12:09

Which is not what the thread is about

Apologies if I’ve misunderstood. Isn’t op saying that the men on a night out should ensure women they’re out with get home safe, because women aren’t safe alone at night?

MartinCrieffsLemon · 14/09/2024 12:42

Anothernamechane · 14/09/2024 12:11

Apologies if I’ve misunderstood. Isn’t op saying that the men on a night out should ensure women they’re out with get home safe, because women aren’t safe alone at night?

You haven't misunderstood

OP made a post saying big strong men need to make sure poor women get home safe because they're so unsafe and can't make logical plans

This was being sensibly answered with "you should take some responsibility" and "only if you're incapacitated in some way"

Then the MN men haters appeared...

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 14/09/2024 12:42

This reply has been deleted

This was the work of a previously banned poster.

Is it exciting to go to a women’s forum and snipe at women? You must know how common violence against women has become.

As women, feminist of not, we are at greater risk of harm than men. As PP pointed out, women tend to be aware of this and look out for each other where possible. I think OP would like men to be aware too.

toomuchfaff · 14/09/2024 12:42

SeaGlasses · 13/09/2024 23:18

No. I don’t feel my male colleagues are responsible for ensuring I get home after a work event.

This.

Your safety is your own responsibility.

I'd even go so far to say that statistically, one of your colleagues you think is safe, could in fact be anything but! Don't assume just because a colleague can talk nice and be professional and polite at work, that he is safe. You have a work relationship with them; that's not the same. Ted Bundy was supposedly nice, boy next door type.

Newbutoldfather · 14/09/2024 12:49

I just don’t get this.

Most men are careful when out. I think it shows a fundamental misconception about men to imagine they think they are invulnerable. Yes, maybe early 20s, after a skinful! But that is just stupidity, not being sensible.

I would never go out without knowing how I was going to get home, or getting so
drunk that I couldn’t look after myself. That is what being an adult is all about. These are work events, not after school or uni discos.

People have different risk tolerances. I have a female friend who lives in an edgy area. I would never walk from her nearest tube station to hers after dark; she thinks nothing of it.

I don’t get why people want to self infantilise, though clearly, thankfully, many don’t.

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 13:19

Women just live a chance to criticise men

MartinCrieffsLemon · 14/09/2024 13:23

I'm also still reeling from the poster saying men "only worry about a couple of punches and their phone being stolen" as if stabbings, beating unconscious, broken limbs and bones, losing an eye don't happen... heck even the risk of prison if the situation is judged to have been an equal part fight rather than a random attack

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 13:24

MartinCrieffsLemon · 14/09/2024 13:23

I'm also still reeling from the poster saying men "only worry about a couple of punches and their phone being stolen" as if stabbings, beating unconscious, broken limbs and bones, losing an eye don't happen... heck even the risk of prison if the situation is judged to have been an equal part fight rather than a random attack

well its true so deal with it

MartinCrieffsLemon · 14/09/2024 13:26

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 13:24

well its true so deal with it

It's true men don't get stabbed, slashed or beaten unconscious?

Sure ok

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 13:28

MartinCrieffsLemon · 14/09/2024 13:26

It's true men don't get stabbed, slashed or beaten unconscious?

Sure ok

They are not fearful of that happening everytime they go home at night.

MartinCrieffsLemon · 14/09/2024 13:31

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 13:28

They are not fearful of that happening everytime they go home at night.

You know all men do you?

Plenty of men are scared, or at least aware, because they see all the news stories of men getting attacked at random, of the knife attacks and fights.

Some men will be scared and take precautions the same as some women will

Sweeping generalisations don't help anyone

RamblingEclectic · 14/09/2024 13:50

While it's nice when people try, I don't think it's entirely possible to fully understand the emotions of another person - that's why saying 'I understand how you feel' often comes across as patronising or a platitude with no substance. I also don't think it helps anything to make sweeping statements that one half of the population feels or acts one way and the other half another.

I'm as wary of women, especially those I don't know, as I am of unknown men. My experience is all the violence I've dealt with in life has been at the hands of women including violent sexual assault. I don't expect others to understand how I feel on that, like many don't understand why I prefer to walk home at night rather than take a taxi if out after the buses stop here. Being locked in a car at night is far more scary to me than a nervous walk home. Statistically, I know more violent crimes are committed by men and they could do more damage barehanded, but like everyone my feelings and perceptions are based on my experiences, not stats and not these days of people telling me what I should be scared of.

Last time I marshalled at a Moonlight Walk charity event, no one at the event entirely organised by women had any concerns about how I was getting home, was not asked once, not that I expected anyone to ask. Plenty of women were on the own in a not well lit part of the city for most of the 10k and many of us marshals were left on our own for extended periods when issues came up that meant the other marshal had to leave. I was way more nervous at the after event with many drunk women celebrating than standing under a dim street lamp in a hi vi for 3 hours or walking on my own in the dark. I called my husband on my out near 11pm when he was about to head to work, his request was to 'text when you get back and please don't walk home'. I caught the next to last bus.

On work nights out, my husband has repeatedly ended up out of pocket for getting taxis for women colleagues who spend the last of their money on drinks and then panic on how they're going to get home and never pay him back. He has repeatedly ended up being put between a drunk woman colleague and some drunk guy they chose to have a go at, putting my husband in danger for their choices. He has had signs smashed over him, had alcohol thrown on him and threatened to be set on fire (thankfully another man stepped in to help the situation).

I'm not offended by him doing so, but I am frustrated how many just expect him to do so because he's a big guy. He is very aware of the dangers to others compared to himself and tries his best, but I always fume, especially when the women who put him in danger talk about it like it's just a cute drunk thing they did. They treat him and the other men like they're disposable props in the story, not people.

And yes, he and my older son do plan things for their safety on nights out, they've discussed how they manage their alcohol to remain alert and plans for getting home, how they handle sexual harassment by drunk women, and their limits on protecting others. I'm in a city with a major 'walk away' campaign because one punch can kill and the guys in my life are very aware of it.

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 13:52

Sweeping generalisations about men are what MN is all about.

Men are not scared of walking home in the dark. Obviously a few will be hiding under their duvet trembling but next time you're out after dark anywhere on the planet see if you can spot a man. I promise they are out there.

StrawberrySquash · 14/09/2024 14:15

I'm not particularly scared just walking home from a normal night out. Part of that is because I've been relatively lucky so far - worse I've had is a mugging and a creepy taxi driver. But no one hurt me. Sure, there are ways I don't go after dark, and it pisses me off that I should have to think like that, but it really doesn't occupy that much headspace. The chances of anything happening are pretty low and I'm not prepared to devote that much energy to something that probably won't happen - that night.

And as women in the UK we are pretty lucky. It's a different story in some parts of the world. None of which means I don't think there is an unacceptable level of sexual violence. But it's one of many risks I just have to accept and get on with.

Atina321 · 14/09/2024 14:23

Why should just the male colleagues be responsible for the female colleagues getting home, it’s everyone’s responsibility to make sure everyone gets home safely.

It Is up to you to arrange a safe way home from work on a daily basis, you don’t expect your colleagues to escort you home from work everyday?

If I’m invited on a night out I either pre-book a taxi or arrange someone to pick me up - you are responsible for you.

Lifeasweknowitisrandom · 14/09/2024 14:35

Don't lump all women together. I wouldn't feel unsafe in this situation at all and wouldn't need a man to look after me.

MartinCrieffsLemon · 14/09/2024 14:42

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 13:52

Sweeping generalisations about men are what MN is all about.

Men are not scared of walking home in the dark. Obviously a few will be hiding under their duvet trembling but next time you're out after dark anywhere on the planet see if you can spot a man. I promise they are out there.

And you'll see women out

Because most women aren't cowering under their duvet

There's a middle ground between being blaise walking around at night and cowering under the duvet and most men and women will fall in the middle somewhere

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 14:45

MartinCrieffsLemon · 14/09/2024 14:42

And you'll see women out

Because most women aren't cowering under their duvet

There's a middle ground between being blaise walking around at night and cowering under the duvet and most men and women will fall in the middle somewhere

When did I see women are scared?

MartinCrieffsLemon · 14/09/2024 14:48

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 14:45

When did I see women are scared?

It's implied

But you just seem to be spoiling for a fight so forget it

Maddy70 · 14/09/2024 14:54

I'm an adult. I'm responsible for getting myself home

Cities are safer as there are more people around. Just get a taxi?

Melodysmum12 · 14/09/2024 14:56

You are an adult and should be responsible for yourself. Your safety isn’t the responsibility of anyone else. Make or female it doesn’t matter.

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 15:43

This thread has demonstrated, by their own admission, that women don't want or need male coworkers going out of their way to make sure they get home safely, so why therefore is OP and her allies criticising men for not doing so? Furthermore anecdotally this thread indicates plenty of men (and women) do look out for women so its doubly wrong to point the finger here.

bragpuss · 14/09/2024 15:55

MartinCrieffsLemon · 14/09/2024 14:48

It's implied

But you just seem to be spoiling for a fight so forget it

Anyone arguing that men on the whole are more fearful than women of a violent encounter on their own with a man at night are divorced from reality.