To think men should understand how unsafe women feel?

[Fraudornot]

So on a works night out and had to get home - I feel unsafe wandering around our large city centre at night on my own to get home. Men who I consider to be fairly aware don’t even think of this as an issue - how to ensure female employees feel safe to get home. What are others experience of this? I’m keen to know what the norm is and if we should all be aware of how women feel getting home after a night out in a city centre. Or should it just be up to us to make sure we can get a taxi. I feel there might well be a pile on about sort yourself out don’t rely on men. But surely we should all ensure the safety of the whole group.

I mean, if we were relying on male colleagues, how would you manage if you worked on an all female team ?

Indeed. I work in a female dominated industry where there are very few males.

Should I just never ever go out with my work colleagues then if no men are present? Or perhaps I should approach some random man at the bar and ask him to get me home.

Alternatively, I could you know, take some responsibility for myself and book a taxi in advance or choose to drive (I dont drink any more). It's hardly difficult to do. We all manage to get ourselves to and from work every day- even when it gets dark by 4pm in the winter. I see women out and about without male chaperones after 4pm daily when it's dark in the winter time. Going to a bar without a male companion isnt some massive unsolvable problem that is impossible to navigate and I say that as someone who is more than aware of the dangers that I, as a woman, face.

Because none of the male staff have asked for one. Because most often it's female locking up. If any of the chaps asked. We'd do it. But all our staff male and female are local "faces" we don't have the usual worries for men...just the danger women face

That's not fair though

Did the women ask or did you just go "aww poor women, better get them a taxi"? Is it just booked for them every night without consultation?

Maybe the men feel they'd be mocked. Or that they'd be refused.

The policy should be that anyone can book a taxi home if they choose.

A male customer could take exception to what a male member of staff said to them during the evening and wait for them, for example. Or visitors to the area who don't know they are "local faces"

You staff policy should be made clear to all members of staff, male or female.

And local 'faces' still get stabbed.

Am I living in a different world to people on here?Last time I checked the news it was mainly young women being raped and murdered on their way home in the dark. Sometimes by randoms, or policemen or stalkers. I'm not denying that men get attacked too but it's just not the same thing at all.

I have had some colleagues who would be very insistent on ensuring that I was safely on my way home, in a reputable taxi etc or walked to the station. I really appreciated that as I was mugged in my early 20s when leaving a bar, alone on a work night out and then assaulted by a mini cab driver. Not necessarily a male colleagues job to look out for others but I’d say there should just be a general sense of shared responsibility that colleagues should look out for one another. And personally now as the boring 40-something mum/one of the bosses I check if our youngsters have a safe plan to get home!

Thread summary:

OP says men should consider or understand how unsafe women feel

Women reply to say one or more of the following:
1 they don't feel unsafe
2 it's not male co worker's responsibility
3 the male co-workers do show understanding and do assist
4 men are equally at risk

Feminist conclusion:
Men are berrating women
Men would like to do a taliban on women
Men are the problem

What news are you watching?

Here there have bene stories of young men stabbed on their way home and plenty of news which wasn't about random attacks at night at all...

Men are much more likely to be attacked on a night out, than women. I'm not talking about sexual assault, I'm talking about being attacked. I mentioned my friend's son who was sadly beaten up by a stranger so badly he was in a coma for months. Men are also much more likely to be murdered than women.
Yes, women are victims too but the vast majority of women who are raped or murdered will be attacked by someone known to them.
The chance of a woman being dragged off the street by a stranger and killed is tiny. It's very rare. Yes we all remember awful news stories of this happening - Sarah Everard, Megan and Josie Russell. It makes the news because it's so rare. A man being stabbed barely makes the news the days.
I'm not undermining women's fear. Fear is real and debilitating. But like many have said, as responsible adults we arrange safe ways to get home.

I’d give up if I were you @SallyWD. You’re far too sensible and fact-based for this thread.

The chance of anything bad happening to anyone is low. We haven't quite reached Haiti levels in most parts of the Uk.

However, my point is that generally men have less fear than women and take less precautions than women in terms of walking alone, taking taxis, and texting that they got home ok etc. etc. Most men are not scared of walking alone in the dark, they don't fear the sound of footsteps behind them or a lone figure standing in the street ahead. They will avoid certain places and situations but that fear is the exception and not the norm. Men expect that they will have options when confronted by a thug because ultimately they are dealing with another man. Just because you know a man who was killed or is scared doesn't change that

I'm not sure what your point is because you seem to be attacking everyone tbh

I'm not the one with posts deleted by MN for personal attacks Martin

How do you know, with such confidence, how men feel? Men are far less likely to talk about their feelings, particularly if those feelings reveal vulnerability.

You can see them all over the place out alone after dark. Young, old, rich poor, big and small. They are indifferent to other men around them. Perceiving no threat till one is explicitly made

You have got posts deleted by MN

MN pretty much delete any comment reported as personal attacks

None of mine have been personal attacks beyond anything else on MN. It just depends if people bother reporting

Yes because famously the moment it goes dark, all women instantly gain a chaperone and are never seen alone...

Where I live I see plenty of women walking alone. I do it myself.

Ok you win. See you around.

OP says men should consider or understand how unsafe women feel

If you read the opening post, rather than just the thread title, the OP seems to be suggesting it is colleagues who ought to take responsibility for the OP getting home after a night out. That is what many posts are saying she IBU about.
Everyone who is old enough to be out at night, needs to make their own arrangements for how they get home. That is NOT the responsibility of colleagues, male or female. I mean, naturally, if a group are going out, then a conversation about 'how you getting home?' might well come up. When we go out, people tend to travel together as it makes sense, but it is down to each person to opt in to that conversation and not anyone's responsibility to arrange other colleague's journeys home.

What an odd thing to say.

All sorts of people move around cities after dark - sometimes after a night out, sometimes after work. Sometimes going in to work. Women as well as men.

The guys know that they can ask. I've been there when the manager has told them to book the cab company 'cos it was raining cats and dogs. They declined as they were going to another bar.

There may be some macho pride involved but what can I do

You can make sure the policy is clearly written and that all the staff know about it.

So men get offered it when it's raining and women get offered it whenever it's late?

Make the policy that any member of staff leaving after X time is entitled to a taxi home if they wish to use it

Doesn't mean either sex has to or that men might take it up but it ensures the policy is fairly written and any new male staff don't have to feel intimidated to ask if it applies to them if they do feel unsafe walking home

You're completely right I will flag it tonight with the managers as I've got a meeting with them. We will put a note on the WhatsApp and behind the bars.
I think we have been too lax in ensuring the men and women know what we will do