To think men should understand how unsafe women feel?

[Fraudornot]

So on a works night out and had to get home - I feel unsafe wandering around our large city centre at night on my own to get home. Men who I consider to be fairly aware don’t even think of this as an issue - how to ensure female employees feel safe to get home. What are others experience of this? I’m keen to know what the norm is and if we should all be aware of how women feel getting home after a night out in a city centre. Or should it just be up to us to make sure we can get a taxi. I feel there might well be a pile on about sort yourself out don’t rely on men. But surely we should all ensure the safety of the whole group.

Sarah isn’t it, not Nicola?

YellowphantGrey
You really don't need to derail the thread with "what about the poor men" or "namalt"“

Nothing to do with Namalt. Everything to do with infantilising women and assuming they’re not capable of making sensible arrangements for themselves.

Thank you

Sarah isn’t it, not Nicola?

Yes. Think they’re confusing her with Nicola Bulley. Entirely different circumstances in each tragic case.

Yeah if someone says they have not felt unsafe that is really disappointing we need every women to feel unsafe that is a much healthier way to see life

Women are one collective mind and have no original thoughts

I understand the risks women face so make a point not to invite them when I go out after work with the lads from the mail room.

Men do not live with the same fear level as women about other men, they just don't.

No men prepares their evening out with the same level of safety that a woman has to.

Stop trying to insist they do. It's not about me not liking what you are saying, so stop trying to silence me with your insistence that men are as fearful as women for their personal safety.

SallyWD · Today 10:00

MrsSkylerWhite · Today 09:59
YellowphantGrey
You really don't need to derail the thread with "what about the poor men" or "namalt"“

Nothing to do with Namalt. Everything to do with infantilising women and assuming they’re not capable of making sensible arrangements for themselves.

Thank you

This thread is pissing me off tbh. I’m 60. Equality has come on leaps and bounds since I was a young woman in the workplace, who wasn’t allowed to wear trousers to work or had to rely on a man to buy me a drink in El Vinos because they wouldn’t serve women. But apparently women don’t have the capacity to take responsibility for getting home and have to rely on a chivalrous man they just happen to work with to take care of us. Bollocks. 😡

It’s never been easier to get home from a large city centre - Uber/similar will pick you up from directly outside the venue. So no, I wouldn’t worry about colleagues getting home.

It's not that at all.

The majority of women do feel unsafe walking alone at night and have to plan, way more than men do.

It's the hidden scorn behind "well I've never felt unsafe" and it comes across as though they are implying that any woman that does is being ridiculous

These attitudes then continue to prop the patriarchy in their views that women overreact, are hysterical and it works again in their favour.

I might not feel unsafe in a situation that another woman might but I can still empathise and understand why she wouldn't feel safe.

Being cool and dismissive really isn't a flex

Men aren't afraid, its true because, although they may be more likely to be attacked, normally worse case scenario would be a punch or two and your phone nicked. At least thats how men see it and generally they feel invulnerable after a few jars. Women have reason to fear far worse

Well based on this, do you ensure every single person on your work night out got home safely, from boss to intern?

Where does the responsibility stop? Is it down to the boss because it's a work night out? Should HR step in and organise taxis for staff? Is it the person from accounts who lives in the same direction? The line manager?

Or is it the individual person's responsibility to ensure they don't miss the last train home or has enough taxi money etc? Or even ask about beforehand if anyone wants to share a taxi home?

I can't understand why personal responsibility is everyone else's responsibility.

YellowphantGrey
Men do not live with the same fear level as women about other men, they just don't.
**
No men prepares their evening out with the same level of safety that a woman has to.
**
Stop trying to insist they do. It's not about me not liking what you are saying, so stop trying to silence me with your insistence that men are as fearful as women for their personal safety.

Assuming you don’t live in a city where at least one young man is stabbed and often killed every week? Rarely young women. There is a very heightened level of fear amongst young men who don’t want to be involved with gangs or county lines and just want to live their lives quietly.

I read it as she wondered why men don't consider how safe somewhere is for a woman to get home from

Not that she expected to be escorted to and from home by a male.

Her point and my point still stands. Men don't and won't consider women's safety

You are a fully grown adult, more than capable of making the logistical decisions needed about

Do I need to go?

Where are we going?

When will it be over?

How will I get home?

If you can't answer those questions, or you don't like the answers, cry off and go home before the rush hour finishes

I lead a large team and I do feel some responsibility for my team when we go out but it's not about gender for me. But I don't feel responsible for their routine transport, that's on them, but I do feel a bit responsible if something unusual happens

Two examples:

A woman in my team lost her phone at the pub somehow and didn't have any means of getting home as she didn't have bank cards with her. I gave her some cash so she could get the train home. If she had preferred, I would have got her an Uber

A man in my team got incredibly drunk and I was concerned he might get mugged or pass out somewhere. I found two other people in the team were taking the same train and asked them to take him with them.

Assume all you like if helps pad your story out

Ultimately it comes down to everyone living in fear of men

And you really need to stop minimising a womans fear "because it happens to men too"

Being cool and dismissive really isn't a flex

Oh for goodness’ sake. I am not cool. I don’t fear walking alone at night. If I still lived in central London as I did in my youth I would do what I did then and ensure I had plans in place.

Why are you trying to insist that every woman feels as fearful as you. They don’t! Women are individuals with minds and attitudes of their own, not some homogenous blob.

Yes, sorry.

I'm not trying to silence you at all and I resent being accused of that. I simply responded to something you said that wasn't true (men being attacked at a lower rate than women).
Yes, of course I accept that many women are scared. I personally never have been and happily walk alone in fields, woods, late at night etc. However, I completely understand that many women do have that fear, and I understand why. I also do know men who are nervous about attack but yes, I'm sure women are more nervous.

**
Ultimately it comes down to everyone living in fear of men“

Jesus, not every woman lives in fear of men! I’m very sorry that you do.

I was sexually and violently abused by my father and my brother as a child. I decided then that as an adult I would be in control and I am. I do not fear walking about at night. Give it a bloody rest.

My male colleagues always offer to walk me back to hotel/ train station depending on whether we are in my home city/ other. It's basic manners.

However, to reply just to the title and not the actual OP. Yes, men should know , understand and be aware. Plenty don't understand though and a lot don't want to either.

NowImNotDoingIt · Today 10:15

However, to reply just to the title and not the actual OP. Yes, men should know , understand and be aware. Plenty don't understand though and a lot don't want to either

I think it’s generational. Younger men we know through our son are very aware.

No one has said that women don't have the capacity to get themselves home, that's what you've decided has been said.

It's more a question of men not considering the safety aspect of how women get home and not even considering if its safe as it doesn't affect them.

No one has said they want to be escorted by a male to get home, just to their safety to be considered which could be as simple as "are you ok getting home?"

Women do this for each all the time. Men don't.