To think men should understand how unsafe women feel?

[Fraudornot]

So on a works night out and had to get home - I feel unsafe wandering around our large city centre at night on my own to get home. Men who I consider to be fairly aware don’t even think of this as an issue - how to ensure female employees feel safe to get home. What are others experience of this? I’m keen to know what the norm is and if we should all be aware of how women feel getting home after a night out in a city centre. Or should it just be up to us to make sure we can get a taxi. I feel there might well be a pile on about sort yourself out don’t rely on men. But surely we should all ensure the safety of the whole group.

Ageism? Really?

Dear oh dear. You were then who declared you were 60, I'm not quite sure why, were you hoping I'd suddenly change my opinion to match yours?

Or did you do it so you could declare "ageism" when someone disagreed?!

Ok, will bite one last time.

Your arguments do not make sense.

Men are statistically more likely to be attacked out of the home by strangers than women.

Most women are no longer delicate little creatures with nothing but kittens on their minds who are perfectly capable of making their own transport arrangements.

Most men I have known have asked “you’re ok getting home”? They have considered it.

If women are all so fearful of men, as you insist “they” are, why on earth would they want to be seen home/to the bus stop by one?

Nonsensical..

Again, have a nice, non-fearful, day. It’s really not necessary. Most people are decent. Though that’s only in my experience, which I now understand doesn’t count because I’m old and stupid 🤣

Have you never heard of taxis OP...they're this wonderful service that you can BOOK IN ADVANCE to pick you up and take you home.

HTH 👌🏻

I voted YABU.

Don't outsource your safety and security. You are responsible for yourself. If you can't be responsible for yourself then you have no business being out in the world.

😂

I just....I can't.....

😂😂

No I don't think it's mens responsibility to get acquaintances and colleagues home at all.

I wouldn't at all think badly of my partner/brother/nephews/friends if they didn't go out of their way to ensure a colleague got home safely. If it was a relative or a friend of theirs, I would expect them to make sure the woman got in a taxi, but that's because they have a personal relationship with that woman and care about their wellbeing.
Just because someone is a man I know and work with, doesn't mean he has an obligation to care about my wellbeing.

If they are in a situation where they can see a woman is being made to feel unsafe, for example like a thread I read here this week about being harassed on the train, I would expect them to step up and say something, and I know they have done so in the past.

As PPs have said, men are also at risk at night, especially in certain areas, especially when they've had a drink.

In contrast, I think @MrsSkyMrsSkylerWhite is staying calmer than you! You're getting quite personal and nasty, throwing ageist comments around.
Look, we all accept that some women are fearful of men and don't like walking alone at night etc. Yes, this is true. There have also been many of us on here saying we don't feel particularly scared. I never have. Our feelings are as valid as the women's who do feel scared (yet you dismiss us and argue against us).
Many of us also feel that it's not really for men to consider how we get home. To be honest, if my male colleague was fussing over me about how I'm getting home I'd feel rather patronised and irritated. I know how to book an Uber!
As for all the people giving blanket statements that "Men don't understand the fear women feel!". Well, how do you know? I bet a lot of men understand it perfectly. There have also been some posters saying male colleagues have ensured their safety getting home. Again, I'd find this annoying personally, but if they find it helpful, then that's good. We're all different.
I have a daughter and son and worry about them equally. My son is statistically much more likely to get attacked in public.

If anything, your comment shows entirely the opposite - that treating all men as the problem is a complete fallacy (especially when you consider that you're flat-out wrong about men attacking men at a lower rate than men attacking women - 75% of victims of violent crime are men, and it's even more when only considering violent crime outside the home).

The cohort of men who are not prone to violence (ie those who are more likely to be victims of violence) are responsible for their own safety. I think we can all agree on that. We can also agree that the ones who are prone to violence are unlikely to be particularly bothered about the safety of women or men.

This thread appears to suggest that the men who aren't prone to violence should not only be responsible for their own safety, but also the safety of the women they encounter.

That's lunacy.

Those men already take responsibility for sensible precautions themselves - avoiding certain areas, staying in groups, sticking to well-lit streets, always keeping their phone to hand etc. I have no idea why a weirdly large proportion of us object to doing the same thing in favour of making them responsible for us.

At least 3 men that are close to me have had their jaws broken when out walking home over the years, all 3 have metal in their jaws now. Numerous other males in my life have been jumped, punched, kicked, stamped on etc walking home after a night out. I'm not sure men feel any safer than we do but they have to tough it out and act like they're not scared.

I've actually walked men home before if I've felt they're too drunk or vulnerable (ie I know there are other men around who they've had previous issues with).

I think if you're out as a group of friends you should make sure everyone gets home safely, not sure I'd feel the same way if out as colleagues though because I'd assume they all had their own plans for getting home.

I think it's a bit unfair to just call men out over this.

I read the OP as men not considering women's safety.

This doesn't mean expecting men tk escort you home at all, yet you've all grabbed this and ran with it

It's as basic as "are you ok getting home?"

But men don't consider women's safety in thus way and assume that they will be at no harm.

If.men are biggest victims, why aren't they more alert about it? Why don't they consider it the same way a woman has to?

What you do for your own safety us poles apart from what men do. It's that habitual to you, you don't even think about it.

Oh please do tell me what I habitually do for my own safety that is so ingrained I don't even know I'm doing it but men don't?

Because I'd hope and am sure men and women alike are aware of those around them. They should all make plans for getting home, including knowing the closest bus stop, last train time etc.

I don't do any of that "walk with your keys in hand and always carry and umbrella and don't tie your hair into a ponytail" bollocks

So because you don't do it, no one does?

Must be amazing being you

Why would they consider women's safety specifically, though? Dollars to donuts, I'd wager that they just think of "safety", rather than "men's safety" or "women's safety". That's certainly how the blokes in my life think (I asked), and the reason they don't ask is that they assume everybody else is thinking of it in the same terms...because it's common sense.

As to that last bit...I've no idea where you get that from, they do think about it. Constantly. It's second-nature, bullied into them from the playground onwards.

**
If.men are biggest victims, why aren't they more alert about it? Why don't they consider it the same way a woman has to?“

They are and they do.

Personally (and I am a woman) I would worry about anyone getting home ok if they went off on their own, male or female.

I get what you're saying OP, but I think we all owe it to eachother and it might not be require or a given responsibility, but I do think we should all take more care for eachother when going out!

Happy to stand corrected but I believe women are at more risk of being attacked by men known to them and young men are more likely to be attacked by strangers.

Yes, but as a statistic, and one that gets thrown up all the time, it’s very flawed.
Men are MUCH more likely to be on the street late at night, to be in woods/ dark alleys etc alone than women.
Women already live under a sort of semi curfew ( not all the fearless ones on this thread obvs, but I can tell you as someone who worked for years in a city late at night that the people wandering the streets at midnight are generally NOT lone women).
So of course, stranger attacks statistically will happen to the people who are outside…
Having said that most of the women I know, including me, have at some point been attacked by a male stranger , or group of male strangers, from groping, attempted rape, to flashing and rape. I have also had a near miss whilst in a taxi ( driver) so I’m more likely to get a bus than a taxi if I can.

I have young adult sons, and I worry about them terribly, but they do walk home at 2am without fear, and they wouldn’t think twice about walking thru the woods alone, whereas I would. The reason mainly is that even as skinny young guys they are twice as strong as me. That’s just a fact.

I don’t know that it’s work’s responsibility to ensure the women get home safely but I do think we should all be aware of how our friends and colleagues are getting home and be as safe as possible.

PontiacFirebird
I have young adult sons, and I worry about them terribly, but they do walk home at 2am without fear, and they wouldn’t think twice about walking thru the woods alone, whereas I would. The reason mainly is that even as skinny young guys they are twice as strong as me. That’s just a fact“

Our 21 year old son is very aware of dangers because of unpleasant experiences of both himself and male friends - he’s nearly 6ft 5 and stocky, which seems to attract drunken challenges even though he’s a, gentle, peaceable man - and wouldn’t do that.

Our 29 year old daughter, married now with a little boy and rarely out late at night, was fearless when she lived alone. I walk through the woods here without a second thought. I suppose my fundamental point is that everyone is different in their attitudes to personal safety, male or female, usually based on personal experience.

I disagree about the reason more men are attacked being because more men are on the street and women are living under a semi curfew. Yes, I'm sure some do, but there are still loads of women out on the streets late at night. I live in Leeds, and on the rare occasions I go out late, I see plenty of women walking on their own.
I think men primarily attack men for other reasons. There's still a general view that you don't hit a woman. Don't get me wrong. I'm aware that many men do hit women. I'm familiar with the domestic violence figures! But still there are many men who will not hit a woman. It's like in prisons - the inmates who are most despised are the ones who hurt women and children. Even a lot of violent thugs see them as the lowest of the low.
Also I suppose men are more likely to feel in competition with other men. I think a pissed up aggressive man looking for a fight is more likely to target a random man than a woman. I agree women are more at risk from sexual violence, groping, flashing etc - but you're far more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted by men you know.

Apart from Christmas celebrations I avoid works nights out. However I agree that the safety of women should be considered. Even though agreeing that male colleagues are more likely to be a threat in terms of behaviour.

There’s a real shortage of taxis where I live (über isn’t a thing here). It’s really difficult to get one and it really puts me off going out to be honest.

But I wouldn’t expect some random colleague to make sure I get a taxi ok. It’s on me.

Then don’t?

I think for me there is a difference between feeling safe and more of a factual based risk assessment. No-one should be responsible for ensuring that other people 'feel safe' as that's completely subjective, I live in a safe residential neighbourhood and know women who don't feel safe leaving the house after dark whereas I feel as safe as I do in the day.

Do work have a responsibility to ensure that employees 'get home safely. The answer to this depends on the individual circumstances, they do have some responsibility but as long as the area around the workplace and event is safe and they haven't given employees so much alcohol that they can't make sensible decisions then that's all they can do really without incurring huge costs.

For example if there are reports ofen following / mugging lone women close to the place of work and work knew this but ignored it, they would be negligent. If they put out a message advising people they should travel in groups of 3 and to speak to a manager to work out some other arrangements if this isn't possible, then they've likely done all that they can reasonably do, even if those women don't 'feel' safe, there is no evidence that they're not safe.

This doesn't mean expecting men tk escort you home at all, yet you've all grabbed this and ran with it

Maybe because OP specifically mentioned walking around alone?

Ah but you said ALL women do
Which means I should

You really aren't grasping the issue is your sweeping generalisations are you?

No I don’t need a man to take care of me and make sure I’m escorted home. What I need is for men not to attack me in the street