To think men should understand how unsafe women feel?

[Fraudornot]

So on a works night out and had to get home - I feel unsafe wandering around our large city centre at night on my own to get home. Men who I consider to be fairly aware don’t even think of this as an issue - how to ensure female employees feel safe to get home. What are others experience of this? I’m keen to know what the norm is and if we should all be aware of how women feel getting home after a night out in a city centre. Or should it just be up to us to make sure we can get a taxi. I feel there might well be a pile on about sort yourself out don’t rely on men. But surely we should all ensure the safety of the whole group.

I just don’t know what you are expecting here.
Everyone should get home safely, but putting the responsibility on others is unfair.

How do you actually see this working?

No. I don’t feel my male colleagues are responsible for ensuring I get home after a work event

Neither do I. If I am out late at a bar with work colleagues, I'd be ordering a taxi to that place, or driving and not drinking, not walking alone down alley ways to get home. Thats just being sensible. I'm not a child.

Of course, if someone was blind drunk I'd do my best to ensure they got home safely but otherwise it's our own responsibility to take.

I found it interesting though that I had a couple of male friends from South Africa staying with me a few years back and they insisted on going everywhere with us, they were utterly aghast that we might be alone for even a few minutes at night - clearly they've been used to a very different environment there.

You aren't their responsibility no more than they are yours .

So we don’t think we should make sure everyone on a works night out should get home safely - knew it would go this way

Of course men should realise the safety issues women face but how exactly do you expect this to work in practice? should they go in the taxi with you even if its miles in the opposite direction to their home to ensure you open your front door and get inside and lock it? what if they need to leave early- are they not allowed to do that because they need to escort you home several hours later even if its inconvenient for them?

What exactly are you expecting from them? How do you ensure everyone gets home safely- should people be texting each other to give them a heads up they've arrived home- and what if someone forgets to text, call the police?

Like, where does it end....

I always make sure woman gets home safe. Leave no woman unaccounted for is my motto.

I think it should be take into consideration when choosing a venue for the night out. Can everyone get home safely and at a reasonable price via public transport, cab or safe, nearby car park etc.

Beyond that, I don't think men need to be doing anything special to help women get home safely. The only things I think are reasonable are things either gender could/should do. Find out if anyone is going the same way as you (eg to train station) and plan to leave together. Offer to wait with them for their cab or bus if they're standing there when you happen to leave. Or asking them to text once they're in the cab/on the train/in their car etc.

I think it depends on the type of night out. Official semi mandated night out, work has some responsibility if you have been made to stay out late. Colleagues' drink after work, you have a choice so need to make plans for yourself or not go.

DH's work pays for taxis home after the work Christmas do, for everyone including the men. Partners are included so we both go.

My work doesn't so I give it a miss.

I'm a woman and I've never felt unsafe getting home at night.

Well, MN is fickle indeed. I've seen many threads which have bemoaned (rightly) the fears of women in a society geared towards (often violent) patriarchy, and that men rarely can see such things from a woman's perspective, but here we have a post which implies there's really nothing to be afraid of after all.

To consider the broader point of your original post @Fraudornot , I think society in general would be a much safer place for women if men could "understand how unsafe women feel".

Since becoming an adult, when I plan my night out, I think about where I’m going to park and / or how I’m going to get home. I don’t see that as someone else’s responsibility.

I might agree to park in the same place as, or travel with, someone else but I would never expect someone to leave early and walk back on their own. As others have said I think often young men are at higher risk of violence from other men on a drunken night out.

Indeed. When I go on work events it's up to me to make my own plans for getting home. I don't expect my male colleagues to be thinking about this.
I'm actually comfortable walking home, late at night. Always have been. Even if I wasn't (I know many women aren't) then I'd just organise a taxi.
Statistically, your male colleagues are much more likely to be attacked on the way home than you. Do you worry about them feeling unsafe??

When I was studying for my degree we only had one man on the course and 15 women. We used to have lots of nights out. How do you expect one bloke to ensure the safety of each individual woman?

No, they’re not responsible for getting us taxis and I don’t think they can understand the terror.

Fuck men.
Of course they don't make the effort to understand, it doesn't directly involve them.
Best to take serious precautions yourself,
at the end of the day, only like this you can be sure you survive and remain unharmed.
Grim, I know.

Presumably you're all adults? I've never thought it's anyone else's responsibility to ensure I get home after a night out. Surely you just get an Uber or taxi?

Exactly this. I think it would be good and sensible for people to check with each other that someone has made arrangements “How are you getting home @Fraudornot ?” , but would expect the response to be something like

XX and I are catching the same train and getting a cab at the other end

Or

YYY has asked me to stay at hers tonight so we are getting the bus together

or

Thanks for asking, I booked a cab and it’s outside now.

or

ZZZ is walking me to the tube and my dad is picking me up at the other end.

Maybe I've just been lucky who I work with but I've never had any colleague turn down a request from me for help to find a taxi, call a reputable firm (when I am not in my home town) or wait a few mins with me while it comes. Or give me a lift, for that matter.

I think that's fine. I wouldn't expect them to pre-empt my need for any of those things any more than I would expect to be held automatically accountable for their safe journey home - but am happy to do all those things when asked.

You're responsible for your own safety and I always ensure I can get home, with a back up plan if necessary.

Sadly, as a woman, if anything were to go wrong, or you were attacked, you would ultimately be blamed in one way or another.

Men will never understand why women sometimes worry about their safety, they won't even accept that it's because of them we worry about our safety.

When Nicola Everard was murdered, I remember seeing one comment from a man, on Instagram on the Mirror website and he simply said '"she had trainers on she should have run faster, it was her fault for taking the risk to walk home, it's on her" I screenshot it and sent it to his employer which he had kindly put on his profile. He was a Teacher and held that opinion.

I fully expect the NAMALT to be on this thread soon, blaming you or anyone who worries for their safety but I get what you're saying.

I always check my female friends have made it home safe and we always check in with each other.

Sadly this is true.

They don't care because they are the reason we have this worry. It doesn't affect them, therefore it's not an issue

There’s always one 🙄

YANBU based on the title - yes, men "should" be aware of this, or at least should listen when told it's an issue rather than assuming/insisting it's not because it's not an issue for them. (Sorry; been up to my ears lately in proactive male misogynists on Twitter/SM.)

For ań after-hours works do: if it's compulsory or obligatory attendance, I'd expect whoever organized it, male and/or female, to take a bit of care that everyone's able to get to and from the venue safely. If it's more of a voluntary meet-up that happens to be people you work with, I wouldn't necessarily expect anything.

What's all this nonsense about men not understanding the fear because it doesn't affect them? Men are far more likely to be beaten up by random strangers on the way home, than women are. My friend's 18 year old son was beaten up so badly he ended up in a coma for months and never fully recovered.
But no, men are just invincible and don't to worry.

But this thread is about why men don't understand why women don't feel safe.

Why do you need to come on and tell everyone that men get attacked too?

Statistically assaults and attacks on women are carried out by men.

Men also attack men, though at a much lower rate.

Whose the problem here? Men!

But many, many men do not consider the safety of women and do not have to take the safety precautions we have to take.

You really don't need to derail the thread with "what about the poor men" or "namalt"

I think a lot of men don't realise this until they have teenage daughters of their own and then they start seeing danger everywhere for women.
But also, was there a reason you were wandering around the city centre and didn't just book a taxi to the door of wherever you were?

What do you mean men attack men at much lower rates than women? Simply not true! The opposite is true. I can't remember the stats but something like over 90% of victims of male violence are men. So yes, men are mostly responsible for the violence but are also overwhelmingly the victims.
Sorry you don't like my comment but I do feel it's a relevant point to make. Several people have said men don't understand the fear but actually men are more likely to get attacked walking home. Why is that not relevant?
I personally feel men and women are responsible for getting themselves home. We're all adults who have access to taxis.

**
To consider the broader point of your original post , I think society in general would be a much safer place for women if men could "understand how unsafe women feel“

Indeed. That doesn’t make them responsible for their female colleagues and the decisions they make sbout their own safety though. That’s entirely up to the individual. If you’re going out at night, book a taxi in advance, arrange to be picked up or ensure you are in good time for the last bus or train, regardless of your sex. Just common sense, surely?