To ask how to negotiate Christmas with exwife

[mistletoeandwine86]

I’ve been with my partner for 2 years and we both have 2 children each from our previous marriages.
This year it is my turn to have my children for Christmas week then they go to my ex husband’s place for the second week of the holidays. The plan was to have Christmas all together the 6 of us for the week starting the 23rd, then they would go back to their mum and then my partner and I have booked a mini break just the 2 of us over new year.
Except now partners ex has thrown a spanner in the works and said we cannot have the children then. She wants partner to have them the following week so she can work and hit the roof when my partner said we weren’t around.
I feel like the ex wife just uses my partner for childcare but he isn’t allowed special days like Christmas. My partner has never had the children for Christmas week, they have always been with their mum and my partner has just seen gone to see them on Christmas morning or has had them on Boxing Day etc but they’ve never woken up at his house on Christmas morning.
My partner is unwilling to fight it but I am so upset because we had it all planned out.
AIBU and how can we negotiate with her?

Discussions do go both ways, yes.

That was the OP and her husband's mistake. Not having a discussion (of any kind) with her before they booked their holiday.

If she isn't minded to bend over backwards to accommodate it, they only have themselves to blame.

If she has to work between Christmas and new year then she has to work. If she doesn't have to work then it will still cost her annual leave. Why should she use her precious annual leave allowance to accommodate people who didn't even run this past her first?

It’s all very informal because up until recently my partner worked shifts

Seems like the dad was perfectly happy to chop and change at little notice because it has suits his working pattern for years.

Do you honestly believe that even if they'd had a sit down round the table discussion beforehand it would have gone any other way? The children have never woken up on Christmas day at their dad's house. Never. Does that seem fair and equal? Does that seem like there's give and take?

FWIW my SC (who are now adults) always (bar one year) had Christmas Eve and Christmas morning with their Mum.
Why? Because actually they liked it best that way round. Mum made it lovely for them and Dad was happy to have them from the evening. They shared residency 50:50 but that worked for us not to alternate at Christmas.

There is give and take.

The arrangement is informal because the father of the children worked shifts. For, it sounds like, a long time.

So the conversation about accommodating her work would surly be the same. Working around her work schedule.

Op and her dp made Christmas plans without consulting the mother of his children and just assumed it would work for her. Despite everyone knowing they sort out seeing the children, informally to accommodate work.

Which parents are with often change over Christmas, where there’s no formal agreement. A conversation should have been had. It didn’t need to be round the table. Just him speaking to her about Christmas, plans, work and so on.

The children never having woken up on Christmas Day at theirs Dad's isn't give and take. Her bleating about stockings isn't give and take. Her declaring she has to work and therefore MUST have the children over Christmas is not give and take. When was the Dad 'asked' to have them the week after? because clearly HER plans were already in place.

Stop making excuses for her - she has been as obstructive in her stance as OP. I know it's not the popular opinion on MN.

Since they haven't had this discussion with the children either, I don't think what the children want has been taken into account at all.

We will never know how the discussion would have gone if they'd raised it with her before booking their holiday. Because they didn't.

Why isn’t it fair? Even the OP admits the children probably want to be at their mums. Whats fair about making kids spend Christmas somewhere they don’t want to?

You say it’s not real, but neither is the parenting load. The dad has them every other weekend while the mother looks after them the vast majority of the time.

Aaaand here we have it: Mum had them most of the time = she gets to have it her way, every time. Ex wife 'logic'. If the parenting load isn't fair for her then she needs to have a discussion about what needs to change. Not dictate and then whine about it.

Why make the kids spend Christmas somewhere they don't want to? I doubt they'll be kicking and screaming to not go, they just have an immediate preference - and unfortunately when the parents are separated, Christmases are split. That's why.

You cannot claim that he should have them whenever the ex wants and not complain about it because it's his 'moral responsibility' to parent, but at the same time claim that he has no right to expect to spend Christmas with his kids.

No, they didn't. And yet mum has booked to work for that second week. Again, with no discussion. Funny how no one is talking about that...

No christmases aren’t always split.

Sometimes they are. this is an adhoc arrangement. There’s no ‘this is always split to make it fair’. That’s thinking it about fair for the parents. Not for the kids.

Maybe the kids don’t want to stay at their grandparents on Christmas Eve and would prefer to be at home. Maybe if their dad was actually staying home they would be fine. But we don’t know. Op says they do probably want to be with their mother. That’s what’s fair.

It’s an adhoc arrangement because that’s what suited the father for years. Now it doesn’t and he hasn’t don’t anything to change it. If it doesn’t suit him he needs to make the effort to put something more formal in place.

This is down to the man the story to sort.

Well because they have always had the arrangement that they work who has the kids around their work.

How would the ex wife magically know her ex wanted to change it this year and made plans assuming it would change.

Work is a necessity, not a luxury. As the resident parent she will almost certainly be bearing most of the costs of raising their shared children.

Lots of people don't get to choose when they're working over Christmas and New Year. They ask for time off and their employer decides whether they get it or not.

Oh dear OP , not read the replies but they will be on the ex wife’s side I know that . She is the queen , you must know this . All ex wives are.You must humble yourself and know your place.

That's absurd. If it was down to my children to decide when they wanted to see their dad they would never go, Christmas or not. They love their dad and he's a good father but they would always choose to stay here. And it would be so tempting for me to say 'oh they don't want to so it only 'fair' that they have what they want'. Unless I need the childcare of course - in which case dad needs to drop everything because it suits me this time?

Can you imagine that that would be in any way a reasonable arrangement? No.

you say that your DP never has his kids on christmas day, but you've only been together 2 years.. you make it out like this has been going on for years and years... i assume you can discount any christmas activities for the first 6 months as i assume you won't have been living as a blended family then.. which to my math leaves 1 christmas, perhaps last christmas.. so you've really had 1 christmas together so no routines or schedules have been settled.

and you said you had it all planned... YOU had it all planned, i assume there was no conversation before hand about how plans fitted in with your DP's EX?

and you mention his ex is using your DP for childcare! they are his kids! he's not doing anyone a favour watching them, they are his children. to be fair, by making your plans to be away for new year is using his ex as childcare whichout consultation.

So why aren't you annoyed at the OP?

Why aren't you annoyed that the OP and her boyfriend are instead choosing to not see his children and go on holiday instead?

If you genuinely believe the ex is preventing contact, why aren't you annoyed that the OP and her boyfriend have chosen the holiday over the children rather than going to court and getting a formal contact arrangement made?

Stepparents get a bad rep when they pull shit like the OP is. The boyfriend isn't exactly doing a Stirling job as a Dad either

Maybe read the thread then give your opinion? Just a thought

I HAVE read the replies and @Flextime is bang on.

Not unreasonable for your partner to do a week on/week off arrangement, as long as he does that for the rest of the year too OP. And accepts that may differ to your childcare arrangement, meaning you end up with zero child free time. But sex is your priority here, not child arrangements so I doubt you and your partner would push for that.

Thats YOUR kids.

Many families do it different ways. Theres no one rule that says christmases have to be split completely equally.

And trying to cut everything down the middle so it’s fair for the adults, isn’t always what’s best for the kids. I am sorry your kids wouldn’t wanted to see their dad but that’s not the case for everyone.

Who is saying she only lets him see the kids when it suits her.

Again, the arrange is adhoc because for years it suited HIM. It appears it doesn’t suit him anymore but he hasn’t made a move to change it! He has been fine having it adhoc for HIS job

It suited him and now he wants to change it so he is the one that needs to start the discussion. Not just make plans the. Wonder why it’s not gone down well.

I think UABVU here. It seems like it’s all from your perspective of convenience when the children are with you and not at all whats best for the actual children. It is not the ex’s fault you seemed to have made massive assumptions that only suit you and your DP to have all children for a full week over Christmas then swan off for a booked holiday during new year.

Maybe your ex could ask the grandparents to have the children for a few days while you go away like other parents do if he’s that desperate to get away.

I hate these situations where children are used as convenient commodities. Why wouldn’t you want to spend some quality time with your own children and him with his? It’s not the same spending time with a parent when step parents and siblings are involved at all. Might all be roses and sunshine for you and DP but unlikely as comfortable for them.

8 & 6, they need their Mum and Dad to prioritise them! Not some new relationship and adult holidays.

Not really Dps ex wife has been a bit of a nightmare.

However, sometimes, I don’t agree with how she has done things but I can see her point of view.

Doesn’t take a lot to look at it from other people’s points of view.

I don’t think Op has really done anything wrong. Her boyfriend wanted to make plans and didn’t speak to his ex knowing they have an adhoc agreement. An adhoc agreement that was set up to suit him and his work. It could have been a good time to get something more regular. But he didn’t. He is the issue.

The whole ‘let’s try shut people up/ignore their opinion by claiming they can’t look at a situation from both points of view and have to be biased’ says more about your own thinking than anyone else’s.

Anyone in any of these positions could be wrong. Depending on the situation.

I'm not 'annoyed' with OP. Have they discussed it with the ex? seemingly not. Should they have from the grounds of common courtesy alone? of course.

But they didn't and now it seems that they won't see the children over Christmas. Their loss.

I'm also not 'annoyed' with the ex. We know very little about the situation so what's the point.

What I object to is everyone on MN assuming that the ex wife is utterly put-upon just by virtue of being the ex wife. And making ridiculous excuses for why they should be allowed to behave however they'd like. And I say this as an ex-wife who has definitely had her fair share of resentment from co-parenting.

Stepparents get a 'bad rep' when they try and do anything with the ex husband it seems.

So many assumptions here!! So many excuses.

I brought up my kids wanting to stay with me because that was literally used as an excuse to let the kids stay with their mum over Christmas - 'its not fair to make the children do anything they don't want to'

People can do Christmases however they like but it seems that this ISN'T how the dad wants it in this case. And he, as much as people don't like it, gets a say too.