To ask how to negotiate Christmas with exwife

[mistletoeandwine86]

I’ve been with my partner for 2 years and we both have 2 children each from our previous marriages.
This year it is my turn to have my children for Christmas week then they go to my ex husband’s place for the second week of the holidays. The plan was to have Christmas all together the 6 of us for the week starting the 23rd, then they would go back to their mum and then my partner and I have booked a mini break just the 2 of us over new year.
Except now partners ex has thrown a spanner in the works and said we cannot have the children then. She wants partner to have them the following week so she can work and hit the roof when my partner said we weren’t around.
I feel like the ex wife just uses my partner for childcare but he isn’t allowed special days like Christmas. My partner has never had the children for Christmas week, they have always been with their mum and my partner has just seen gone to see them on Christmas morning or has had them on Boxing Day etc but they’ve never woken up at his house on Christmas morning.
My partner is unwilling to fight it but I am so upset because we had it all planned out.
AIBU and how can we negotiate with her?

The ExW isn't sounding very Child-focused, either. @IridescentShadow the woman has her kids all the time apart from the pitiful number of days the man chooses to see them. Sounds like she's entirely child focussed.
The man only has them every other weekend and one evening a week and doesn't want them at Christmas.

It sounds like you had it "all planned" out without speaking to their mum, who is accustomedto doing it all having them all for Christmas every year?

Why would you be surprised she has other plans?

Why do people say this?

She IS involved. She lives with their father.

I agree with you OP, it’s about u also not just the ex and kids.

No excuse.

Get it sorted officially so EVERYONE knows where they are

@IridescentShadow

The ExW isn't sounding very Child-focused, either

You mean the ExW who has worked round her ExH's shifts for years, always looked after her children over Christmas for that reason, and even facilitated him visiting them in her home on Christmas day? Oh, and also is the primary carer for the children?

Isn’t negotiating the same as fighting for it in which case does your partner want to go there? I think I know what the answer is but does he intend to go away with you and only have the kids a few days or has he asked you about cancelling your trip?

This is why he should have had a Child Arrangement Order drawn up- the courts would have fought for his right to have every other Christmas if he didn’t have the stomach to stand up for it.

This is EXACTLY what I mean! You’ve decided the dad ‘barely ever’ parents his kids and isn’t interested in having them for Christmas. It doesn’t say that in the OP. But because he’s the dad, he MUST be the bad guy…

It literally says in the OP that the man doesn't want to fight it (doesn't want to parent his kids at Christmas) and OP has written how often he sees his kids, and it's a tiny amount of days. I don't understand how you think that's me deciding anything.

Maybe she’s concerned he won’t do it ‘properly’ because he never has before? How involved is he in creating this kind of event?

It’s. Not. Childcare. When. They. Are. His. Kids.

Good Lord. “We want to be able to have time by ourselves” so essentially you want to use your ex partners for - in your own words - childcare! Your partner doesn’t do 50% of the childcare, and I’d suggest unless he wants to negotiate a formal order then he does as she asks.

Notably, she wants some extra support from him so she can work. You just want a child free vacation - you didn’t ask the kids what they want, you just want some time off. You’re unreasonable, she’s not.

It's not about male vs female. It's parent who sees them all the time vs parent who sees them about 20% of the time and their girlfriend and her children.

It doesn't sound like OP is prioritising the children and what they want (not bothered to ask!), more like she wants a couples holiday so all the children have to fit in around that, even if they have a rubbish Christmas.

@IridescentShadow The ExW isn't sounding very Child-focused, either.

You mean the woman who looked after them 90% of the time? The woman who has had to plan her time around her ex’s sporadic shift work pattern for however many years since they’ve split? The women who is concerned this change to how the children have always spent Christmas will be to their detriment because based on the knowledge gained within their marriage and the way he’s parents since she doesn’t think he will put in the effort to even do presents and stockings right?

But ‘doesn’t want to fight it’ could mean anything! YOU’VE decided it equates to him not wanting his kids at Christmas — but he might not want to fight it because his ex wife would make his life really difficult if he did so, for example. (I’m not saying that is the reason because, unlike you, I’m not attributing motives to someone I don’t know.) As to a tiny amount of days — again, there’s nothing in the OP to say why that’s the case (plus I think you’re conveniently ignoring the school runs). But, as ever on MN, if there’s a divorced dad, it must all be his fault…
Anyway, we’re never going to agree on this, so I’ll leave it there.

Every other weekend and an evening… the kids probably don’t want to spend Christmas with you. My Dad was a part time parent, a similar kind of arrangement, and there’s no way I’d have wanted to spend the special occasions with him instead of my mum. She did the majority of the parenting so our bond was with her. Sorry that doesn’t fit in with your holiday plans.

I agree with you about the OP, but I still think PP jumping in to suggest the DC probably don’t want to spend time with their dad on Christmas Day, or that his Ex is worried about his parenting skills, are making those assumptions about him because he’s male. He might be an amazing dad. He might be awful. We don’t know — and I don’t really think it’s the point of the post. It’s more — as you say — that the OP, from her post, doesn’t seem to be prioritising the SDC…

This is tedious. I have read all of OPs replies, not just the OP. Yes, it's a tiny number of days a month. School runs are a bare minimum, very basic part of parenting. I couldn't care less about the sex or marital status of the parents involved. It's irrelevant.
The boyfriend not wanting to fight to parent his kids is depressing.

I voted YABU because it sounds like you booked the minibreak before you checked your preferred arrangements with your DP's ex. That was just silly.

The children are 8 and 6.

He has had another discussion with her and she says it’s unfair that she won’t be able to see them over Christmas week at all. But during the school holidays my partner has them often for a week at a time. I appreciate that Christmas is a bit different but we can’t break up the week because of our plans the following week. So it’ll just end up with him not seeing the children at all other than his usual EOW. Sigh.

It used to be a more ad hoc arrangement, last year partner had them for a few days before Christmas (which fell over his weekend) then he went to see them Christmas morning and then had them a few days later. The year before I think he spent Christmas with them all at her mums house.

Not unreasonable for him to want to do week on / week off over the Christmas hols because that’s what they do every holiday.

We live about 30 mins apart.

As for what the kids want yes they probably want to be with their mum.

There was no affair, no one cheated.

wow he often has them for a whole week over school holidays

Sounds totally reasonable to unilaterally change the Christmas arrangements that have been in place as long as the little one can remember

If the kids prefer to be with their mum for Christmas, then that’s where they should be.

If they do have such a preference, it’s likely to be the result of long-term choices, ie the dad has been the “secondary parent” for a long time so their main home is where they want to be for special days, or perhaps their mum has always gone to the effort to make Christmas special for them with decorations and food and activities, while their dad puts up a mini tree with a bit of sad tinsel on.

nothing to do with you. I co parent with my ex and if my new partner or his told me what to do, I’d tell them to fuck off. Pure and simple.

Would you be able to go away the first week, then come back and have a second Christmas with all six of you the second week?

If you want to find a solution, you need to step into her shoes. She is their main carer and she has no one else. You are proposing she spend the whole of Christmas week by herself, without even visiting her children. Most single mums would say no to this. How far away are the paternal grandparents? Can she visit or drop them off there on Christmas morning? Presumably, as long as you get your holiday, you are open minded to a compromise that works for her.

You’re coming across as if the way you want the Christmas to go is the only thing that matters. This isn’t a long standing plan that the ex is suddenly trying to disrupt. It’s still September and the ex is telling her co parent when she has to work over the Christmas holiday. This should have been considered before you assumed you could have the two weeks split the way you want. You’re accusing her of throwing a spanner in the works just because she’s not automatically going along with what you want. Your partner obviously realises she’s being perfectly reasonable and that’s why he doesn’t want to stand up to her. Maybe we just have a man here who doesn’t want to behave like a dickhead to his ex at the whims of a new partner, which would be refreshing.

It was never fair to consider having your step children for a whole week over Christmas knowing that their Mother, the woman who does the vast majority of their upbringing, would be upset by it. More importantly, you’ve admitted that the children would probably rather be with their Mum at Christmas anyway. Aren’t you supposed to be doing whatever would make them happiest? If you think about if from any perspective other than your own, you’d realise that your children probably don’t want to spend all of Christmas Eve and Christmas Day away from home with their Mum’s partner’s family either.