To ask how to negotiate Christmas with exwife

[mistletoeandwine86]

I’ve been with my partner for 2 years and we both have 2 children each from our previous marriages.
This year it is my turn to have my children for Christmas week then they go to my ex husband’s place for the second week of the holidays. The plan was to have Christmas all together the 6 of us for the week starting the 23rd, then they would go back to their mum and then my partner and I have booked a mini break just the 2 of us over new year.
Except now partners ex has thrown a spanner in the works and said we cannot have the children then. She wants partner to have them the following week so she can work and hit the roof when my partner said we weren’t around.
I feel like the ex wife just uses my partner for childcare but he isn’t allowed special days like Christmas. My partner has never had the children for Christmas week, they have always been with their mum and my partner has just seen gone to see them on Christmas morning or has had them on Boxing Day etc but they’ve never woken up at his house on Christmas morning.
My partner is unwilling to fight it but I am so upset because we had it all planned out.
AIBU and how can we negotiate with her?

I feel like the ex wife just uses my partner for childcare but he isn’t allowed special days like Christmas.

It used to be a more ad hoc arrangement, last year partner had them for a few days before Christmas (which fell over his weekend) then he went to see them Christmas morning and then had them a few days later. The year before I think he spent Christmas with them all at her mums house.

Bit of a difference where you imply he isn't allowed Christmas with them yet he has been with them? Is this the 3rd christmas they've been split up and your 3rd christmas with him?

she says it’s unfair that she won’t be able to see them over Christmas week at all. But during the school holidays my partner has them often for a week at a time.
So the has them for 3 weeks of the summer holidays, 1 week at Easter and 1 of the other 1 week half terms?

Why do you expect her to not see them at all over Christmas? Has your boyfriend asked her or told her the plans you've come up with? A sensible way to do it would be christmas eve day and night and christmas morning with parent 1 new years eve day and evening and new years day morning with parent 1 then christmas day afternoon and boxing day with parent 2 new year day pm and following day with parent 2 then swap each year. Normal contact on the days between

Christmas is a bit different but we can’t break up the week because of our plans the following week. So it’ll just end up with him not seeing the children at all other than his usual EOW. Sigh. you can't possibly be this annoyed because you've unilatelry decided to change plans, book a holiday and expect a mother to not see her children, all without discussing it first? You've also implied he doesn't see them at Christmas yet he has never gone a Christmas day without seeing them bur you're expecting their Mom to?

It seems that you're trying to control the puppet strings and that their arrangement has previously worked but you want to be on 50/50 to match your arrangement so you get lots of lovely child free time at your convenience.

How are his children being considered in this?

The line that gets me is “I’m upset because WE had it all planned out” wtf?? How about your dp discusses plans with the mother of his children before anything is booked and then blaming her for “throwing a spanner in the works” ffs! His children should come first. Just because his working plans have now changed and he maybe more flexible shouldn’t mean the mum is after doing the bulk of the “childcare” are you so lovingly put it

What is your problem ?
Take your attitude to someone else .

You are being utterly unreasonable and seem to think after only two years you can come along and dictate the whole schedule of these children and their parents just because it suits you and your children and your desire for a child free week.

They have NEVER split Christmas into weeks before and it is not like the long summer holiday. It’s an “occasion” holiday and completely normal to split days not weeks. The children’s DM has been VERY accommodating in the past by facilitating their dad visiting her home and her parents home to see the children. He is the secondary parent (on account of the EOW and a night in week arrangement) and you come along with your own ideas and think you can ride roughshod over their normal set up. Didn’t even consider the DCs wishes or their primary parents desire to not be away from her children for the whole Christmas week. So long as you get your child free week eh. Utter selfishness.

Not being funny but it sounds like you just want her to adopt YOUR schedule to suit YOU.

Most kids don't spend the full Xmas week at ones then the following week at the other parents.

This is none of your business. Your partner needs to talk to his ex and work out something that suits their kids and them. Then come back to you and find a compromise.

I appreciate you want a week for a couples holiday, but you're not entitled to it. Blended families are complicated, you need to be flexible and allow the ex wife to have some control too.

So until recently your partner did shifts - so presumably the children's mum has been the one fitting around that. Your partner doesn't do 50/50. He does every other weekend plus a weekday evening. Every previous Christmas they've spent with their Mum. Of course they shouldn't spend all Christmas week with you. I think it's fair to ask to alternate Christmas days as it's not fair their Dad never gets to see them on Christmas day. It also however sounds like Dad hasn't really asked for this before which doesn't make him look great.

I love the fact that your first response is the kids won't see their dad, rather than you'll cancel the holiday.

Selfish.

Your boyfriend sounds familiar to my friends ex.

He also has every other weekend and does 1 week in summer holidays. Says he hasn't got much annual leave but expects the occasion holidays and still manages to take his girlfriend away on holidays during school holidays when he easily could be with his children

Says it all really.

Children are the afterthought all the way through her posts

Sorry it IS unreasonable. Christmas is not the same as other holidays and expecting his exDW to not see her young children for the whole Christmas week is unreasonable. It's usual for separated parents to alternate Christmas Eve / Christmas Day for example but not the whole week, particularly at such young ages. Why did you book the time away without confirming Christmas arrangements with her? Also if his DC want to be with their mum for Christmas, that is what should matter, not what you and DP want. He doesn't want to fight it because he knows that deep down, it's right for his children to spend Christmas with their mum if that's what they would prefer. They could then come to you from Boxing Day - he could go and get them - and spend the rest of the week with you.

So the kids mum has no partner and you want to take the kids from her for a whole week over Christmas as it suits you. How very sad for her to be all on her own. When I was a single mum even a couple of days without my children over Christmas when they were young was very tough, let alone a whole week. Also from another viewpoint, my stepson who is now grown up has also always spent Xmas day with his mum, as he’s got older he has sometimes popped to see us x mad morning, but he wants to be with him mum, that’s his choice. My husband just had to suck it up and he’s fine with it. Kids like familiarity and routine and just because the children get on with yours doesn’t mean they want to spend Xmas with them, Xmas is often about family traditions etc which your kids are jot part of.
Ive done a few bowling days with my beaded family and whilst we’ve had some nice times it can be a strain for all. As everyone does tuning differently at Xmas.
Your set up with your ex is unusual and I don’t think just because you want it that your partners ex should just fall into line, I certainly wouldn’t. Since my children have been teenagers (now adults) they have chosen where they wish to go with no pressure from me.
You do deserve some time together but you should never have booked a holiday without checking with partners ex.

The kids are fine together. We are going to go to his parents house and spend Christmas Eve and Christmas Day there.

Why would your kids want to spend Christmas with people who are no relation to them? Why not have it just your own family?

Having read your updates, you’re very unreasonable.

The ex is right that Yabu (you meaning you and your partner) She accommodated him every year but you are suggesting that she doesn’t see the kids for the whole week. You must know that summer holidays aren’t the same as the Christmas ones and that she may want to take them to extended family etc

It’s mind boggling that you live half an hour away but think that a whole week is fair. One week with the kids then one week away may be the perfect Christmas for you and him but you are overlooking the admitted fact that it’s not best for the kids. The kids who do one week with each parent will be doing so because of distance eg overseas - not living 30 minutes away.

If you were reasonable you’d ask for 3 or so days of the week that you wanted the kids initially then go on your holiday. Or you’d invite mum to your home Christmas morning to repay the kindness shown to your partner in the past. That way everybody gets to see the kids around Christmas and you get to go on holiday.

It’s interesting that your partner is offering to change the dates of his holiday to maximise time with the kids - says a lot about him as a father.

You are utterly and completely unreasonable, and deep down you must know it.

OMG the mental gymnastics going on here to make the ex wife completely blameless and correct is astounding.

The children have never spent Christmas with their Dad? That sounds like the ex is controlling to me but almost everyone is making excuses for it with very little information.

The ex has decided the children will spend Christmas with her and the dad can have them the week after as it fits with her work schedule and that's NOT manipulative and selfish but actually completely fine because she's the ex and therefore OK to do whatever she wants??

In order to have any fair parenting arrangements tou have to go to court? Until a court-ordered mandate is in place the ex is completely OK to have it all her way when she decides and no one has any right to any feelings about it?

The kids surely don't want to spend Christmas with their Dad? Everyone seems very certain at dads house the kids sleep on the floor of an undecorated room and there will be no presents. What on earth?

It can't be dads 'moral obligation' to have the kids whenever his ex dictates because they're his responsibility but that equality doesn't go both ways and mum is now the 'better' parent when it comes to Christmas day. Dad has a right to do Christmas however he sees fit - and that might be different to how his ex wants it to be.

In this case, if people are so sure that the ex gets to decide the Christmas schedule with no flexibility then OK, the kids are with her for Christmas but she also has to accept that OP and her ex husband are away the week after when she wants him to have them.

Why on earth did you book the holiday before discussing it with her?! It's a huge change to previous arrangements, so I don't know why you thought she'd be fine with it. Or why you would think it would be fine for the children to have an unhappy Christmas. Blaming her for not falling in with your plans is bonkers, frankly.

Read the thread you plonker!

The OP has clearly said that Dad has seen his children and spent time every Christmas with them since they've split.

Last year he had them for the Christmas morning at their house and the days before

The year before he spent the whole day with them at his exs parents house and they were still together the Christmases before that!

I think booking a break away, without letting the ex know, was daft given they have an ‘adhoc’ arrangement.

You say it’s that’s way because your partner worked shifts. So it revolved around his work for quite a while. But you both (you and dp) expected plans to stay exactly the same for something 3 plus months time, even though it hasn’t the whole time they are split.

If Dp wants a more formal arrangement he needs to sort it. It appears it’s not interfering with your break. You are still going. So this is really an issue for your dp to sort out.

It's not 'having them for Christmas' is it?? It's a few hours.

He's still been there. Last year was just the morning yes but prior to that it's been the full day. The OP even said this because he works shifts.

Now she expects the child's mom to not see them for a whole week because they want a weeks holiday. They haven't even asked the kids what they want

If the ex is being so unreasonable about contact and the OP and her boyfriend really believe she is purposely withholding contact and they are really devastated and concerned for the children, why haven't they done something about it? Why haven't they made an order for formal contact?

Instead the OPs reply was "oh well looks like my boyfriend won't see his kids at Christmas" there are 52 weeks of the year,, does their child free holiday really need to happen in the second week of the Christmas holidays?

Incidentally things like christmas are expected to be sorted out between the parents and this won't be dictated to by the Court.

If he has t spent Christmas on his own with his kids perhaps he should do that before doing it with you and your kids. You've only been dating for two years so there shouldn't be any rush.

How are presents and things like that going to work at his parents house. Are the grandparents going to be able to give their grandkids presents and not give your kids anything.

Are you reading the same thread as everyone else?

The only thing his ex wife has done is objected to being presented with a fait accompli and expected to fall into line because he and the OP booked a holiday without even discussing Christmas with her first.

I expect the DH is counting down the days to 2nd January .

I'm perhaps not reading it with the same the-ex-wife-should-always-have-her-way glasses on, no.

Seems to me that's not 'all she's done'. She's upset with the fait accomoli and upset that her own isn't going to work. She wants them every Christmas and their dad can have them when it suits her because she wants to go to work. Did you read the thread? How did you miss that bit?

Discussions go both ways - and ex wives can - brace yourself - act unreasonably. Thank goodness Mumsnet is around to console them and tell them they can behave however they like.

There hasn't been any discussion though?

The OP and her boyfriend booked themselves a holiday then told the ex that she couldn't have the children or see them at Christmas because they were having them but that she could have them the second week.

The Ex said no I'm working

The OP is now furious that their couples holiday has been ruined. Well actually it hasn't because she is saying that their only option is to not see the children

How on earth is any of that the exs fault?

Are you the OP with a name change fail?