To not understand the obsession with ‘doodle’ breeds

[CherryValley5]

Eg: labradoodles, cockapoos etc.

They are absolutely everywhere! Why are people actively seeking out and paying pedigree prices for dogs that are effectively mongrels? Behavioural problems are all too common, not to mention hereditary health issues due to poor and unethical breeding - I am a dog owner and the vast majority of doodles, ‘poo’ breeds etc that I meet are incredibly hyperactive, with owners who have no clue how to deal with them. Obviously there are exceptions, some are lovely but as a rule of thumb they’re dogs that I tend to cross the street to get mine away from.

The breeder who created the labradoodle calls it his ‘life’s regret’ - that speaks volumes in my opinion!

It's not a case of 'dealing with a bit of hair', a lot of people are allergic to shed dog hair especially asthmatics. Hence the popularity for dogs that produce low amounts of dander compared with others

Most of the dog breeds we have now have only been around about 200 years, or even less. People did not breed dogs in the way they do now before that. It came out of the idea that you could breed pure, perfect "types" of dogs by limiting the genetic lines, so it was very much a product of the scientific eugenics movement of the victorian and Edwardian periods. A lot of the people who founded the programs were big in the human eugenics movement too.

It's unlikely to take anything like 200 years for the doodle dogs to become a stable breed type. Some lines already are - they aren't bred from crosses bt from doodle parents who are products of established lines with predictable offspring.

My doggy had a Bernese mountain mum and standard poodle Dad (Bernedoodle). We had her from a reputable breeder who trained therapy dogs. We had all the health testing. She is sociable, great with children, trainable and good natured. She is also incredibly daft, springy at times and will eat anything. Absolutely full of doodle character and we love her to bits.

No, people on mumsnet, and other owners of poodle crosses, don't actually care. We also don't own mongrels. Try looking up the definition of a mongrel if you don't know what it means.

There ARE reputable breeders out there. Just because you don't know any (and why would you as you're not looking at getting one so wouldn't have researched) doesn't mean there aren't any. Just as saying they're all backyard breeders "in your opinion", doesn't make it true.

You seem to think that people buying doodles and poos don't know what they're buying a mongrel. Of course they do. Often you have to select mongrel when buying pet insurance online.

Those names are just a shorthand way of explaining the mix when asked.

They chose their dog for the same reason anyone chooses a dog - including characteristics, size and appearance. Some then train them into lovely pets, and some don't, just like with every other breed.

They are popular because word spreads that they are lovely pets, and because everyone knows someone who has one and recommends them. They are having a moment like dalmatiins in the 60s and numerous other breeds over the years.

lol this. I live in a seaside village . Every other holiday maker has one.

It's quite a mean thread really.

I can't imagine starting a thread essentially saying that people are idiots for buying bulldogs that can't breathe, sharpeis that need all their wrinkles cleaning daily, terriers that bark at everything, guardian and hunting breeds that really were bred to be independent and so on. Because people love their dogs and choose them for different reasons. It really is just snobbery.

It is so ridiculous how so many poodle cross haters claim that all the ones they've seen are hyperactive and neurotic. For a start, there are many out there that you might even not realise are doodles, as they take after a purebred parent, so don't have that doodle look. Also, people are less likely to notice the dogs walking along minding their own business, so perhaps many well behaved ones have passed you all by.

Cockapoos are the most common doodle and I've read countless posts telling people to avoid cocker spaniels as they can be neurotic, so it stands to reason that some of this will be seen in a cockapoo. Doesn't make them neurotic as they're a crossbreed or mean all doodles have that trait.

I must be lucky as I live in an area where the majority of dogs are purebred and I've only had 1 dog owner dismiss my dog as "not being a proper breed". Everybody else is fascinated by her (she's quite unique in her looks) and want to know all about her. It generally extends our walk by about 30 minutes at least! It's nice to know I'm not surrounded by judgemental snobs, who have nothing better to do than sneer at other people's dog choices.

Ahhh.. creating new breeds.

Yes, all the breeds we have were originally mixed breeds.

However on the whole they were created in a fairly short time frame by one, perhaps two people initially, who could breed intensively and cull hard (and yes, I do mean by killing those that didn't make the grade).

THey could do this because they were rich aristocrats, landed gentry, those with time, space and money to burn and bugger all else to do.

Breeding in this way meant that they achieved their goal usually within their lifetime, had one or two people to carry on that very specific goal who would not veer from it, and no one who would not adhere to that goal got their hands on a pup.

This doesn't happen now, it can't - people tend not to have the space or time or money to do it. They don't want to do it by themselves, they can't do it by themselves so they involve other people.

Other people have lots of different ideas, and no one these days can stomach killing dogs because they don't make the grade. So they rehome and hope that people will neuter... and not breed from them and most do but some decide to go their own way with a breed using someone elses 'rejects'...

And so it takes a long time to get a new breed to breed 'true' (ie the offspring will definitely look like the parents and fit that breed standard to a very high degree).

Breeds like the wolf-a-likes - the Northern Inuit/Tamaskan/Utonagan - these started out as one attempt to make a dog that looked like a wolf... and people had differing ideas and fell out and bred from dogs it had been agreed not to breed from...

Like the Old English Bulldogge/Old Tyme Bulldogge... same thing.

And then theres those who just breed any old dogs together and slap a name on and call it a breed (XL Bullies) because their agenda is somewhat different.

Cockerpoos and Labradoodles are not going to become a registered, true-breeding 'breed' any time soon because very very few people are attempting to do that and those that are are not working together in a way that will survive outwith their own lifetimes. The money to be made is in producing early gen x's, cockerpoo x cocker, poo x cockerpoo etc, so that is what most people are doing.

If you're still outcrossing, you're not attempting to produce a true breeding pedigree.

Some folk HAVE produced a recognisable breed in their own lifetime, Brian Plummers 'Plummer Terriers' were for a time true breeding and highly recognisable. But since his death things have wavered off course, few people want them, fewer want to stick to his vision... or do the things he did to achieve his goal!

@WiddlinDiddlin I was going to post something similar, for the hard of thinking who are comparing the careful, selective development of breeds for purpose, with the farming of poodle crosses.

The two are incomparable. The sole reason for breeding mutts is to make money. That's it. There are no reputable "breeders" of doodles, no matter how much people protest. They are still knowingly breeding puppies for cash.

Also, @CellophaneFlower ,everything you have said is incorrect 🙈

Please explain what I've said that's incorrect?

Oh do give over people breed pedigrees for money- a lot of money. 🙄

This!!! The fact she denies the existence of bad pedigree breeders is worrying.

My mums got one and was utterly shocked when I told her that it would probably need lots of mental stimulation as it’s a cross of 2 working breeds. I think the people on here moaning about them being badly behaved are probably referring to owners that have bought them solely because they’re (undeniably) cute and not realised that they’ve got ‘a lot of dog’ in them.
I personally can’t imagine spending so much money on a cross breed but horses for courses!

My neighbour has a King Charles Spaniel, selectively bred a hundred years ago to try to recreate dogs from old paintings of King Charles Ii apparently. Too small for hunting but popular as lap dogs. Lots of health issues.

I cba googling but I'm sure there must be other breeds selectively bred to make good pets.

This is my main bugbear. Whenever there's a thread where somebody mentions getting a poodle cross or somebody recommends one, it's always "don't go near anything with poo in the name, they're all from puppy farms. Get a pure poodle instead or a different pedigree". They never go on to mention that buying a pedigree can also be a minefield, with probably just as many being puppy farmed or that being KC registered really means bugger all.

Everybody needs to do their due diligence when buying ANY puppy.

I'm surprised some people think that making money isn't a big factor in the pedigree dog industry.

Sometimes these breeders like to say they only charge above cost price so their puppies don't fall into the wrong hands 😂

The lack of knowledge and selective info is deeply worrying when you decide to lecture others re dog breeds.

In addition to Mini Schnauzers needing a lot of exercise and having high grooming needs whilst being prone to separation anxiety they are also prone to stubbornness(making training harder) and barking( anything and everything),health issues( painful bladder stones, cataracts, and liver shunts. Allergies, skin infections, pancreatitis, heart trouble) and obesity.

We did our research. We’d choose a cockapoo over a Schnauzer any day.

Sorry, no. But a good gess!
Thig is, both breeds are smaller than the average cookerpoo.
But I'd have a Harvanese in a heartbeat!
But have a look at the Tibetan Terrier!
They seem to tick all the doodle boxes. What I didn't mention in my original post is that they can cope with little exercise.

Tibetan terriers are really vocal from what I've experienced.

If I was thinking of getting a dog I wouldn’t be thinking of providing little exercise.

Why would I want a Havanese over a cockapoo- have you seen their coats? And they are prone to barking, have health needs…

And look at their coats!

@F0urt33n - there is no such thing as a perfect dog. Each breed/ type has some attributes that are not wanted or undesirable.
... your knowledge is also somewhat limited, because if you cross 2 breeds with say hip dysplasia in their lines, you can vary well get a puppy with hip dysplasia. It will also take a few generations to breed out heavy inbreeding. Crossing 2 different breeds does widen the gene pool, but the inbreeding and the related problems don't necessarily dissappear.

I think the main issue with pooX is, that the majority of breeders don't screen their breeding stock. There is no limit to how many litters a bitch can have as there isn't any registration. For F2 crossing, there isn't a pedigree to check how closely they are related....

By all means, get a cookerpoo but be sure to research both the Poodle and the (working) Cocker Spaniel as your puppy will inherit attributes from both parents. (The Good, The Bad & The Ugly)