To not understand the obsession with ‘doodle’ breeds

[CherryValley5]

Eg: labradoodles, cockapoos etc.

They are absolutely everywhere! Why are people actively seeking out and paying pedigree prices for dogs that are effectively mongrels? Behavioural problems are all too common, not to mention hereditary health issues due to poor and unethical breeding - I am a dog owner and the vast majority of doodles, ‘poo’ breeds etc that I meet are incredibly hyperactive, with owners who have no clue how to deal with them. Obviously there are exceptions, some are lovely but as a rule of thumb they’re dogs that I tend to cross the street to get mine away from.

The breeder who created the labradoodle calls it his ‘life’s regret’ - that speaks volumes in my opinion!

I do remember something about this. I think there are a lot of glorified farms these days that have a fancy website etc. It really is such a minefield when buying pups.

I do know one really good doodle breeder, but she doesn't advertise and all her puppies go to either repeat buyers or by word of mouth.

My puppy came from a lady who'd never bred before and isn't planning to again. She had done everything properly though, hip/elbow scored her bitch etc, chosen a decent stud, parental history, spreadsheets of puppies weights recorded etc. She kept one herself and all owners of the pups have kept in touch. On top of that I did my own research on the stud etc. Sometimes an inexperienced, non registered breeder isn't always a massive red flag if you do your due diligence.

Sorry, @Arran2024 I was supposed to quote you above!

I went to meet the pup and put a deposit down. Afterwards I just had a really bad feeling and decided not to get her. Looking back I realised that there were loads of signs that it was a puppy farm. A ‘nice’ house but it was obvious that the puppies ‘mum’ was not their mum.

I guess this led me on to my path of rescuing as I never wanted to be part of that again.

I'm not a doodle person though, so why yell this at me?

And as I stated earlier in this thread, the problem for the poodle crossbreeds has been that the cockerpoo in particular has attracted a lot of first time dog owners which is a situation that backyard breeders have been taking full advantage of.
So, guess what? I don't disagree with you here. I never did.

And no, I didn't say you're a bad guy for caring about rescue dogs. I only said that I see bias in you because you congratulated someone up thread for having a rescue. That is a sore point with me at the moment, I will admit. I have family members who won't say anything nice about my puppy because she's purebred and their mantra is "Adopt Don't Shop". They openly voiced their disapproval to me, and I know that if she was a rescue they'd be telling me they love her.

So I suppose most of us here feel we are being judged in some way for our choice of dog, whether it be doodle or not.

I think the original Australian Labradoodle had some other breeds too didn't they? Cocker and some kind of water spaniel too I think. They're known to be a lot calmer than your average labradoodle, so I assume down to the consistency due to further generations.

I did this once but it was a cockatiel and I only lost a tenner deposit 😂 I was a bit of a wet blanket back then and didn't want to be rude and tell the lady her birds looked a bit flea bitten and her cages were dirty, so I told her which one I "wanted" and bolted! Then I told her my son had developed a bird allergy so we couldn't have it. I've only just remembered this 😳🤣

Honestly, I'd just let it go over my head. I'd probably be more likely to gush about my pup at every opportunity though at those family members!

My MIL likes little dogs. I got a huge one and she does like to insist at every opportunity "but you said you were getting a small one". I didn't! I always said I wanted a large dog and SHE would say "no, get a little one". I sometimes wonder if the reason I wanted to find the biggest doodle possible might have been to annoy her just a little bit. 😳😂

Yes, I saw that!

Lorton had gorgeous Facebook pages. My dogs' breeders were the old school type who hardly used email even. No pics of the pups. They were security conscious, breeding the odd litter because they showed dogs. Dog mad. Our third dog came from a place so thick with dust we couldn't even sit down. Up a farm track so rough we had to leave our car at the bottom and walk up.

Yup, I know where you're coming from re your MIL. Mine had Westies but to be fair she did love our Pyries once she got to know them. Looks like you did indeed get the biggest Doodle possible!!!

We're considering getting a second dog next year (cos we've had two together before) and I will take delight if it annoys the family even more 😛If they don't want to cuddle a cute fuzzy pup that's their loss.

Yes! Why stop at 2? Fill your house with them 😂

I've thought about getting another dog too. I'd have to go smaller as I couldn't cope with 2 her size and also I feel sad that my boys can only hold her lead when we're out of the way a bit, as she's so strong. I'm not keen on yappy dogs though and every small dog I've googled seems to be this way - obviously know it's not always the case, but bothers me all the same. I could go with a mini poodle/retriever but sometimes they don't end up very mini 🙈 Plus mine is so perfect in her nature that I don't want to upset the apple cart! Think I'll leave it for a few years.

‘But it gets me thinking - was it a single genetic mutation in a wolf millions of years ago that started it all off?’

I believe it is established that wolves and dogs have a common ancestor, but diverged many generations ago. However they are inter species fertile, so can produce offspring ( I don’t know whether the offspring are fertile or are like mules) .

Please do not take this as inspiration for a new ‘breed’.

We did have 3 PMD for quite a few years but we were very much younger then so I think two is the limit now, unless we won the lottery and could afford a lot of land. We're both getting on a bit now! We've just weighed our girl; she's about the same weight as yours now - I think you said 35kg...? She's a swine to walk at the mo (just under 6 months).

I was trying to think of a calm smaller dog for your boys to walk and the only ones that sprang to mind were Sheltie, Whippet or Soft Coated Wheaten but I'm sure there will be others.

If I had to go smaller I'd be lost... I do quite like Bouvier but they're pretty rare and hard to find. All my other favourites are ginormous dogs like Wolfhounds, Leonbergers, Estrela Mountain Dogs and I also really love Landseer Newfoundlands although you don't seem to see many of those these days.

We're straying miles off topic here...😆I'd best shut up before we get our marching orders 🙄

Yes, she was 35kg a good few weeks ago. I used to weigh her all the time now but it's a struggle to lift her now! Wow, how much will yours weigh once fully grown? I don't see mine as large when she's on all 4 paws, it's when she's up on 2 that I realise her size 😂

Thank you, oooh more dogs to research! I do love whippets, but the prey drive puts me off a bit. They'd make an interesting pair for sure though, my big hairy lump and a whippet 😂

Oh no... the bouvier appears to have the same fringe issues as my dog 😱😂

Gullible people paying silly amounts of money for a mongrel. Breeders are laughing their socks off. 🙄

Indeed, getting a rescue dog is incredibly hard if you have children or work away from home.

My breeder wasn't... she worked bloody hard for that money and deserved every penny as far as I'm concerned. She took a good few months off work, so obviously lost that wage too.

I'm not sure how much pedigrees cost, but I'm guessing around a similar price to what I paid. She didn't do any less work than a pedigree breeder would have done, so I'm not sure she deserved a penny less.

I'm aware my dog isn't a pedigree so I haven't been conned. I could have bought a pedigree but chose not to.

She should be around 50kg fully grown but the males are more. Our boy was over 6ft tall on his hind legs, we have a photo of him at 11 months with paws on my shoulders and he towered over me. They are huge and it does make life complicated in some ways having a dog that big.

It's why I worry about the Pyredoodle, that is still going to be massively strong and chucking in high energy levels and the prey drive means it won't be a breed for a novice owner however cute it looks as a puppy.

It's already been done. Czech Wolf Dog.

(Sorry can't see who you were quoting so answering both).

No, it was multiple examples of the 'protodog' which started out as a wolf (again not the wolf we have today, a forerunner of that animal) that had a slightly less fearful, avoidant reaction to humans...

The more those animals appeared, and the less avoidant they were, the more likely they'd be spotted by humans, scavenging around the fringes of human settlements.

People would have spotted puppies with curious features - floppier ears, curly tail, perhaps patches of colour or different patterns (we know this due to Belyaevs fox experiments).

People are not that much different in many respects... its pretty easy to see how some humans would find the puppies that looked less wolfy, acted more friendly, rather attractive. Perhaps they saw these 'proto-dogs' killing rats or chasing scarier predators away from the human settlement (in order to maintain access to food, not to protect the humans of course).

That attraction would lead to someone looking after an orphaned puppy, lobbing spare food to them... and that is the start of selective breeding, in reality!

Those people would favour the cute puppies, they would feed and tolerate the nicer behaved protodogs.

And they would not feed, protect or favour, but drive away or kill those that were not pleasant, were snappy or risky to have around.

This, unknown to them of course, selected for more friendly animals whose behaviour was easy to understand, whose appearances were more attractive. So they got more of that and again as Belyaevs foxes show us now, the appearances of these protodogs would change pretty rapidly with even more cute features, and cute behaviour appearing.

I believe that this happened multiple times across various human settlements and early wolf populations - the protodogs being SO dependent on humans meant that any time a settlement died out due to disease or famine...so did the protodogs, due to the distances between human settlements.

So if this had only happened once... we wouldn't have dogs.

Oh wow, I feel mine is a mini now 😂 Mine was the smallest born but the biggest of her litter now! I did worry she was overweight as it's hard to check with all her floof, but vet says she's fine.

Yes, I do think it's a worry that people aren't going to consider the other breed in a doodle. Some will just think you can cross any dog with a poodle and they just become a doodle with similar traits to all other doodles 🤦‍♀️

Your girl is far from being a mini, she's probably the perfect size really. Much as I love the giants, they do make life complicated in some ways.

Breeding is interesting. I've a miniature schnauzer...pure bred.
However...the standard schnauzer was the pure breed and miniatures came about having been bred with smaller breeds like toy poodle and affenpinscher. Maybe the miniature schnauzer is the original 'poo' lol.
Similarly giant schnauzers were bred with larger breeds and the standard.
So both these now KC registered breeds were mongrels many years ago but are now pure breeds in their own right.

Nigel Havers in interview 'our dog? A rare type. A poodle poodle'.😄

Every “doodle” I’ve ever met has been badly behaved, yappy or just plain annoying. YANBU