Dd screams for hours if she doesn't get her own way

[whatswiththerain]

We are so exhausted with it. We put her to bed and she (dd6) will demand a drink/snack/toy/phone and scream for hours refusing to go to bed until she gets what she wants.
Of course we try not to give in but she won't stop and there gets a point where we can't take any more and give in so when we try and be stronger the next time she just fights for longer.
It's every night and bedtime is just an example, tonight she had spaghetti bolognaise and wanted cheese on top she got that and ate the cheese first and screamed and refused to eat anymore without more cheese.
If we give a consequence she'll scream and scream about it and as much as we know giving in is the problem, it's become so much of a problem that it takes over the whole evening and nighttime until we are so exhausted with her we just have to give in because we have no energy left and need to go to bed.
I know we've done this ourselves but I don't know to change it now it's done.

While I'm still with her she will act the same, wanting to take a toy in and not going to go in unless she can but then when I leave her and come away the teacher says she's fine as soon as she goes in but then when I collect her again she might say can I have sweets from the shop and if I say no then it starts.
I've even taken to driving the short 10 minute walk to school to avoid having to pass that shop.

Thank you

Like others have said she’s learnt that screaming eventually works. It’s so hard but you have to hold out. I appreciate how difficult that is though. She needs to learn that screaming doesn’t work and the only way is to battle through and ignore her

Lots of great advice here. I just wanted to add that big little feelings on Instagram is great for explaining how toddler brains work and gives lots of advice on sticking to boundaries etc.
I'd also be careful about sticker charts and rewards to incentivise etc...emerging thinking is that oftentimes this makes children feel like they're 'bad' a lot of of the time and only 'good' when they get rewards. It might work short-term but ultimately you want them to do it as normal behaviour and because you have a good relationship, not because they think they might get a reward (not saying it's never appropriate just throwing it out there).

No she doesn’t, she sounds spoilt! She has learned that screaming gets her her own way and she is holding her family to ransom with her foul temper.

OP we are all behind you. You can do this. Tomorrow firm Mum is in town. Her life is about to be turned upside down and she will hate it, but you will all be happier in the long run.

She's a child, it's what they do! It sounds like you're trying your best but exhausted. I've no helpful suggestions, other than to say it will work out in the end.

If she’s behaving herself in school then do you think she’s well aware of how to manipulate you?

im sure folk will be along to tell me
that she’s probably masking etc but honestly she sounds like a little madam who needs swiftly put in her place.

My 5 year old is also prone to the extended shit fits. We don’t give in to her (as often it’s not even possible) and for her it’s usually triggered by something else - if she’s tired, had a bad day, feeling unwell etc. and it’s almost like she needs an outlet for all her pent up feelings and it’s not really about the cheese or whatever. Something I’ve found is that she often needs a way “back” from the tantrum/meltdown - another option instead of cheese/no cheese. So I might offer a glass of water, a hug, something neutral that helps break the endless back and forth of I want x / you can’t have x. It doesn’t usually break the spell immediately but definitely helps her move on.

Please don't tell us you give a 6 year old a phone at bedtime. Parents need to parent.

They're not letting her rule the roost at school, are they? Maybe seek some advice from the teachers?

She can't scream forever; eventually, she'll run out of steam and fall asleep. If it takes six hours, so be it.

Or, you know, be on here in ten years when she's bigger than you, helplessly saying you just can't do anything about her stealing your car and driving it drunk (or whatever) because she pitches a fit if you tell her no. It really is your choice.

I'd read this somewhere before and every bedtime I sit with her and talk about how she feels and if anything is worrying her, all she says is she's sad because I won't let her do such and such eg take her phone to bed and tries to win me round before getting frustrated and screaming for her phone.

You're right tomorrow morning, enough is enough.

She’s 6 and has her own phone? If she’s prone to dysregulation I’m not sure giving her something known to be addictive is a good idea. How did it get to her having her own phone? What does she use it for?

My youngest (nearly 6) would do exactly the same if we were to give in. As most others have said, you have trained her to scream by giving in. She knows if she goes on for long enough, she will get what she wants. We leave our child in a safe place where we know they won't get hurt and let them get their anger out.

For the regular triggers (such as bedtime), you need to tell her at a calm stage of the day that things are changing and what will happen. Be clear that if she screams, it is no longer going to result in you giving in. She is much more likely to listen to what you have to say

Be under no illusion - the first few times are going to be hell for you because you have taught her to scream longer and harder until she gets what she wants. She will keep going as much as she can...after she has not won, she will start to get the message.

Also, as others have said, keep up the praise for when things are going well and demonstrate that doing things the right way results in positive outcomes.

I would advise you to check your daughter isn't neurodiverse able to hold it in at school but let's it all out when she is with you as you are her safe place if she is neurodiverse then normal parenting techniques do not always work

Why does a 6 year old have a phone?

Pure manipulation.

She's not angry, she's very clever, knows what she wants and how to get it...she's just got you under her thumb!! She'll get one hell of a shock if you start parenting her, but if you keep up with path of least resistance, you'll be back on here asking for advice for an unruly teenager, whose turned your house into a chaotic war zone.
Nip it in the bud. Be strong and let her scream, tantrum and shout. She'll stop eventually, and within a few days she learn bad behaviour doesn't get her what she wants, and peace will be restored to your home.

Well done! Keep us updated so we can support you!

(get rid of the phone - too young for one. They’re highly addictive and your life will be easier without the battle of getting it off her).

I think most parents go through this with one of their kids. It's quite often the youngest, because they're the "baby", and excuses are made for them. I remember my youngest being the same. When he used to get beside himself when he was little because he couldn't have his own way I just used to kneel down at his level and say very firmly but calmly "I told you you couldn't do X and I mean it. You are NOT going to do X. I can see you've got yourself all in a tizz and angry about that so you can just calm down in your room for a while and come back to play/carrying on doing whatever activity when you're ready." When he used to come out of his tantrum and reappeared I wouldn't mention the incident at all, only to breezily say "Oh hello! Feeling better? I'm just doing X/Y/Z, do you want to help me?" Just move on from it.

When they're very little they're just about learning boundaries, and how to manage their emotions when their wishes are thwarted. The emotions they have are natural and normal, and it's important to acknowledge that you recognise that sometimes their feelings are difficult for them.

Once they are older, though, unless there are any ND issues it's often purely just about a battle of wills and manipulating the situation to get their own way. I've seen it at school (where I work) with NT 6 year olds screaming and shouting in anger and stamping their foot because they simply don't want to do something you've asked them to do. They switch between quiet and calm to the full shouty stampy mode depending on who is watching and who they think they can manipulate by their behaviour. Often they are the youngest in the family and have just been babied and let get away with murder because of that.

I've found the following to help:

remaining with them, not fleeing, not isolating them
saying 'I understand'
calmly repeating boundaries
not arguing
not threatening
not bribing
not reacting strongly (this includes laughing when it gets ridiculous)
gentle patting to reassure you're there
showing you aren't afraid of big emotions

All helps to reduce the severity and duration.

I don't disagree on the advice about boundaries and holding firm, not giving into screaming. What sometimes helps me though when my 4.5year old kicks off is distracting them with something silly and ridiculous. It's hard to do when you are grumpy too but it can stop a tantrum in its tracks or avoid it, as they are no longer fixating on the thing that set them off. Good luck

Have you tried putting punishments in place for this behaviour? Aka no tele the next time if you scream for hours after bedtime. If you haven’t put any consequences in place aside from holding out then giving in after a few hours then start now. Take her toys away or whatever it is that will be a suitable punishment until she learns