Dd screams for hours if she doesn't get her own way

[whatswiththerain]

We are so exhausted with it. We put her to bed and she (dd6) will demand a drink/snack/toy/phone and scream for hours refusing to go to bed until she gets what she wants.
Of course we try not to give in but she won't stop and there gets a point where we can't take any more and give in so when we try and be stronger the next time she just fights for longer.
It's every night and bedtime is just an example, tonight she had spaghetti bolognaise and wanted cheese on top she got that and ate the cheese first and screamed and refused to eat anymore without more cheese.
If we give a consequence she'll scream and scream about it and as much as we know giving in is the problem, it's become so much of a problem that it takes over the whole evening and nighttime until we are so exhausted with her we just have to give in because we have no energy left and need to go to bed.
I know we've done this ourselves but I don't know to change it now it's done.

Only say no to things that you are completely compared to stick to. Choose a few things that are complete non negotiable and then ride it out. Say yes to other things.

There really is only one way to fix this. The question is whether you and your husband prefer to remain defeated.

Remember, no-one else will tolerate this behaviour, so you may also find she / you all become isolated.

I@whatswiththerain "She is meant to have her friend come over on Saturday so we've said she won't get to but she shouts no and screams and fights about it, she has such anger and hatred in her and won't calm down until she gets her way."

I dont know that this is really anger and hatred, it seems like she's just learnt a successful strategy and you keep proving her right and enforcing her behaviour.

You tell her no, she screams, you give her what she wants. It works.

You need to make it clear it won't work from now on and then stick to it.

You have taught her that she just needs to carry on screaming and eventually you will cave.

There's only one way to stop that and you know what it is.

Stop giving in. She will scream for hours and hours and hours because you've taught her that what she needs to do.

So you need to first of all think about her requests. Do they have to be no. That's the first thing
Are you saying no as a knee jerk reaction when really it's fine if it's a yes?
Also, are there times when you can give her choices so she feels that she has some control?

Anticipate potential triggers for her and manage her expectations up front.

If you say no then get the earplugs ready.

Leave the room for a bit if it's getting too much.

The older sister means you have to stop her getting away with everything. How do you think the giving in to her all the time reflects on her.

Make some space for the older child to sleep somewhere else for a couple days and attack the problem.

This! One DS ND so will scream his head off (and ours) when not happy (he's 14!). But he has learnt that some things are non negotiable and it's only when he's distressed that he has a meltdown for those things. In your situation I would :

1. Rule out ND (contact peadiatrician)
2. If no ND you have to be firm and detached from her reaction. Noice cancelling head phones are great, DH uses them every day when DS starts screaming (I'm less sensitive to the shouting because used to it)
3. Always stick to the RULES. No negotiation. So talk to DH and make a list of rules.
4. Take turns in dealing with her. When one is worn down the other one steps in.

If she's not ND this will sort itself out as long as you're FIRM. How is she with others?

You need to follow through with what you say, completely pointless threatening then giving in. I don't think I would threaten not to have a friend round, you need to be firmer and consistent

You need to pick your battles. If you know you are going to give in, don’t start the fight.

Mean what you say and say what you mean (that goes for both ‘yes’ and ‘no’). If you say no, you absolutely must not change your mind just because she behaves poorly.
You already know what the problem is. You’ve trained her to do this.

A really clear set routine, maybe with a visual prompt for her.
No electronics before bed. Small snack and drink. Teeth. Story and bed.
You know she’s ok so can be firm it’s bedtime. Don’t engage.

Worse than pointless- every time they do this they reaffirm that the screaming has a favourable outcome for her.

Put her in her room and leave her to it, every single time she screams. Don’t fight about food. If she eats the cheese off the top and won’t eat anymore unless she gets more, you scrape her plate and she is hungry. Crying or being hungry for one night will not hurt her, allowing her so much power really will.
My elder sister did this for a while, it was exhausting for everyone.

By 6, it’s going to be a very hard slog to re-enforce that no means no. My strong willed one needed this re-enforcement from 2 and understood quickly that what we said, went and that any push-back would absolutely not have resulted in their own way. They still tried!

However, are there definitely no ND issues at play? A sibling just couldn’t understand “no” its meaning and consequences. They are now in their late 30’s with some ND diagnoses.

She doesn't have anger or hatred in her- she's begging you to give her boundaries. Children need boundaries and love in order to be grow up into secure adults. She might be screaming for one thing but every time you give in you're making her world more insecure.

We went through a phase of 3-4 hours worth of screaming every day with my DD last summer. It was hell but we didn’t give in. I found that once she was in a state, everything we said made her more angry so the only way to de-escalate was to put her in her room until she started to calm down. We didn’t get angry when we did it, but stayed very calm and quiet. She still gets angry but we don’t get those rages and protracted screaming fits anymore. You have to ride it out - it takes ages and it’s not easy.

You have taught her that she just needs to carry on screaming and eventually you will cave.

This is true and we've let it get out of control but because she knows we cave in eventually, even when we leave it longer and longer until she gets more and more frustrated then she's so upset she'll get her way and move straight onto something else, sometimes I wonder if it's really about the thing she wants or just not accepting being told no.

What’s she like more generally? Has she always been demanding? Do have school have any concerns?

Screaming tantrums is behaviour most 6 year olds have outgrown. To know if there is anything more to it than not hearing no enough, you need a good few weeks of not giving in to screaming demands. Assess how she is when firm boundaries have been implemented. Some (lots) of DC thrive on firm boundaries even if it pisses them off in the short term. For a small minority of children, loss of autonomy makes their dysregulation worse. You will only know when you try.

My DD at a similar age was a ball of rage at times. She's always been stubborn and wilful (exactly like me). I'd ended up getting into negotiations with her, she'd lose something for bad behaviour, apologise, earn it back. Etc. I finally drew a line and the meltdown was epic.

The only way to fix this is through it. I had to channel an inner calm that I really didn't think I had. I gave myself a gold star for not throwing her out of the nearest window (only half joking) and prepared for a battle.
It took a while, and I occasionally slipped back into old habits, but I realise my DD needs massively firm boundaries. We got through the raging tantrums in about 3 days. I didn't budge on any of it. Calm, repeating yourself and not raising your voice at any of the screaming will drive her insane and make her ramp up, she wants a response from you, cutting it dead will infuriate her. Don't keep escalating consequences, otherwise there is no where for her to go. (Ie start with friend not coming over - absolutely fine, three hours later, she's never ever seeing her friends until she 21, not reasonable and you have to go back on). If you do it, and then stick to it, it will be worth it. At the moment she gets what she wants by doing something specific, you always back down. You have to go on it further than she's prepared to.

My DD now 11, sometimes still a moose, and sometimes I'm snappy. But she knows the boundaries and even when she strides over them, knows the consequences will stick regardless. And just accepts it. Our life is much calmer for it. And she's actually happier.

She’s learnt that they are empty threats. She won’t ever stop unless you stop giving in. It’s going to be tough resetting but it will get a whole lot worse if you don’t impose some boundaries now.

This is a monster you have created. Your daughter behaves this way because it works, and she will act like this every single time because she knows you and your husband have no backbone and have lost control.

You had best turn this around before your daughter permanently becomes an absolute nightmare.

She has learned Screaming works

Bin the sticker chart...You need a hard reset as described above if you want to see a change in behaviour. Look for solutions to make that happen not excuses as to why you cant.
Put her in the dining room /hallway/ your bedroom /on a specific chair / wherever

If you keep half arseing it this will continue/escalate.

You cannot have the friend over now.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Right now your dd is in charge and she considers your parenting a "light suggestion"

As hard as it is to hear... you and your dh ate failing her by bromg so permissive and inconsistent

Personally I wouldn’t get into a power struggle about cheese. Why is that a hard no?

Have you tried giving her more responsibility? Eg drawing up, together, not at bedtime, a schedule for getting ready. Mine loves reverse psychology so I’d say “no, there’s no way you can do all of that! In the 30 mins before bed? No, we’ll need to start getting ready at lunchtime! Ok, if you really think you can do it you have to be in charge of it and you can prove me wrong…” Then it’s you and her against the schedule, rather than her against you.

Earplugs and calmly stand your ground.

Leave the room if she makes it too unpleasant to stay, and tell her why you need to leave the room.

As soon as she knows it's not effective she'll stop. It will get worse for a few days though 😩

I read your post and felt similarities between your child and my own (aged 4). He likes to have control of situations and whilst he is frequently told no and that boundary is firmly held it’s not as easy as putting him in his room to scream for hours. Like you we have other children to consider, he becomes physically aggressive; hits, kicks, and bites and very destructive, will trash his bedroom, has broken door handles, pulled down curtain poles etc and we are in a rented property so cannot allow for continual damage to be made.

It is exhausting, small things (I relate to your cheese example well) can cause these outbursts and they spiral so quickly. I do suspect ND with my child and I’m hoping school will support us with this. However I am not sure how much of this behaviour they will see. He is also a lovely, polite and very bright boy.

Sorry I’ve started rambling, but I just wanted to acknowledge it’s not as easy as putting a child in a room to scream for hours on end. If you don’t have a child that is like this it can be hard for others to comprehend the severity of it.

This is really good advice. Stay super calm. Don’t escalate. She needs you to be calm and strong, not meet anger with anger.

Agree with all the other PP - you know what you need to do, even if you are knackered.

If it’s of use, a phrase I’ve found really helpful is ‘you need to be able to trust what I say’. Sometimes my four-year-old understands that, and sometimes he doesn’t, but it always helps me to say it.

It reminds me that my job is not to make him happy, it’s to provide a safe and secure place for him to test boundaries, learn and grow, and that the one thing he needs from me is sincerity, to know that I’m telling the truth and not misleading him. So in our house, we say yes a lot if we can, give choices to help frame decisions and then when we say no, we mean no.

And if that sounds a bit worthy and Pollyanna, I’ll be honest and say that sometimes I just yell ENOUGH and go to a different room to calm down.

They adapt really quickly to it, I don’t think this will be as tough as it might appear. I reckon you’ve got a week of hard work, then it’ll be done.