Dd screams for hours if she doesn't get her own way

[whatswiththerain]

We are so exhausted with it. We put her to bed and she (dd6) will demand a drink/snack/toy/phone and scream for hours refusing to go to bed until she gets what she wants.
Of course we try not to give in but she won't stop and there gets a point where we can't take any more and give in so when we try and be stronger the next time she just fights for longer.
It's every night and bedtime is just an example, tonight she had spaghetti bolognaise and wanted cheese on top she got that and ate the cheese first and screamed and refused to eat anymore without more cheese.
If we give a consequence she'll scream and scream about it and as much as we know giving in is the problem, it's become so much of a problem that it takes over the whole evening and nighttime until we are so exhausted with her we just have to give in because we have no energy left and need to go to bed.
I know we've done this ourselves but I don't know to change it now it's done.

Absolutely.

I agree. Posters saying to video her remind me of the threads where men are videoing their wives to "show how crazy they are" or whatever other nonsense reason they're using to try to shame them into silence.

No phone, no silly demanding,scream away on your own. Does she scream at school?

ah okay. I don’t condone child’s behaviour, but as I say, reminds me of something that happened when I was young, and I was eventually diagnosed with autism. Hence me mentioning if it’s a possibility.

Sorry, I didn't mean to appear to be lecturing. Sometimes that happens with the autistic wiring :-) My intention was to give an alternative perspective on the behaviour. i.e. to consider that this may not be a spoilt child scenario, but something more complex. The OP's description seems to outside of the normal extremes/reactions that most parents experience, therefore normal remedies may not be effective. So: watch the behaviour closely; look for common components; explore (educate about) other possibilities. This may mean seeking a diagnosis and help, perhaps from professionals or parents with relevant experience.

She obviously needs to learn to accept boundaries by you sticking to your guns, but I'd also try to avoid turning everything onto a potential battle. Why did you say in the first place that she can't have more cheese? I would just have put a piece of cheese and a frater on the table and everyone can serve themselves. If she'd taken such as not leave anything for others, I'd point thus out, but usually kids get tired of grating quite soon. Offering more choices in general so that she feels overall in charge, and then hopefully having fewer battles, but in those battles you then really must not budge.

Stick to your guns now… take a day off work and stick to your guns even if it takes all night! You need to show her now that screaming no longer worked…
I said the same to my friend about her twins that she always gave into… they’re now 13 and fight and slam doors and scream all night till they get their own way… they’ve even threatened to stab their parents!!….
honestly as hard as it is stick to your guns now and show her it will no longer work, the more she kicks off the more privileges she looses and NO means NO! Do not back down! You are the bosses!
don’t respond when she’s kicking off, take her to her bed and keep putting her back in it, when one of you starts feeling annoyed swap with the other parent and just keep doing it without talking to her… no snacks or drinks in bed… put some house rules on the wall.. a sticker chart and say if she’s good she gets a star, if she eats her tea nicely she gets desert, if she doesn’t then nothing!… if she goes to bed nicely she can have a treat the next day… then build up to bigger treats if she’s good 3 nights in a row, then 4 and build up.

Re a PP, I don't agree with offering a treat like MacDonalds for behaving well at dinner. Behaving well at dinner should be an expectation that doesn't need to be rewarded.

I had a pupil years ago who would frequently hit his mother ( he was a strong ten year old boy ) and she ended up by promising him a toy for each day he didn't hit her. Most of us can see that's not a good idea. With this approach you can create a situation where all good behaviour needs to be bargained for and that's not sustainable.

I do agree with consequences for actions. Not in a severely punitive sense though. More like "We don't have time to do (something nice) now. That's a shame."

And not engaging with her while she's screaming. "I can't hear what you're saying when you scream. I can only hear you when you speak."

Pick your battles and when you say no you have to mean it and stick to it. Certainly at this stage. In later years it's appropriate to discuss a compromise. Right now you need to establish that your child is not in charge of the family.

The idea of videoing an upset child is horrific by the way. As is the suggestion to scream back at her. Appalling. As a parent you are the adult and you need to model the behaviour you want to see.

You don't need to get angry but you do need to be firm. And calm.

Alternative view here. Could there be some neurodivergent issue bothering her ?
Alternatively as already posted give her some choice then if she kicks off tell her it was her choice and the pack it in and behave. Deffo no friend over to stay.
I wouldn't involve school for 2 reasons. If she were like this at school they would of been in contact with you. And if you speak to them they can take things too far involving other agencies.
Also how long has this been going on. Is she settled at school or being bullied

Hope you get things sorted out the the child has a calmer ride must be exhausting.

She had already HAD cheese on the spaghetti bol, which she'd eaten, she was kicking off because she wanted more!

The saying 'made a rod for your own back' springs to mind. STOP giving into her demands, take favourite toys away as punishment until she learns, if you don't master this now, God help you for the future.

If she does not eat its not a problem she won't stave herself, Let her scream but tell her if she does you will have to ... choose your consequences and stick with it. If she is well behaved the reward will be...

Re: treats.

What about the well-behaved sister?

I worked in a school where the ‘bad boys’ got treats for being ‘good’. A group of well-behaved children complained that boys were being rewarded for bad behaviour.

Head of Behaviour Support: No, no. They’re being treat for GOOD behaviour.

Unconvinced pupil: Aye, but they’ve god to be bad FIRST, haven’t they?

Sorry- phone typos.

What's she like in a restaurant ?

I do hope the parents never take her to one !

Stick to your guns.

You have to ride out the screams.

Also punish her for screaming at you. Say an earlier bed time, no TV or something else she would not like to change or have taken away.

If you stick to it you will establish boundaries & make life much better for all of you, DD included.

I don't think OP is coming back ...

She has anger and hatred because she has no boundaries.

I would suggest you speak to your GP and be referred to camhs. I have two daughters. One was incredibly challenging. I am absolutely not trying to diagnose your child, but what you describe suggests to me that it would be worth getting some support. Have you come across the book 'The Explosive Child'? That would be a great place to start. I would not go down the escalation route that some others are proposing -think of her behaviour as more of a panic attack and then you might be able to respond differently.

Watch Super Nanny deal with this behaviour. She’s probably on the internet somewhere.

@Arran2024 Was your Dd diagnosed with anything?

Ways to behave, boundaries and immediate consequences need to be clear, consistent and understandable.

Delayed retribution like only giving her a piece of cheese the following night won't work because her brain won't connect the late consequences with the previous day's behaviour. And if she's been good all day, the perceived unfairness will hit hard.

Angry emotional reactions like chucking her dinner away and dragging her to bed are the adult equivalent of screaming. Don't use unpleasant power to force behaviour (which is what she's currently doing to you).

Get together with your husband and agree your strategy and share it with grandparents, teachers, etc, and stick to it.

Limit that phone - you've already said responses here have given you pause for thought.

Have set phrases and standard procedures you both reach for, so your actions aren't driven by exasperation or despair.

And always remember, you're creating a child and a teen who'll want friends, a young woman who'll want relationships, maybe partner and kids, colleagues.

Help your child to not become the adult whose behaviour gets complained about here on Mumsnet!

Have a trawl for books on parenting young children and adolescents - there'll be two of them in the house before you know it, and educating yourself will only benefit you all.

Incidentally - how much attention is your 'well behaved' older child getting, while the screamer has the spotlight firmly pulled onto herself?

Basic animal training. Rewarding good behaviour is far more powerful than punishing bad behaviour.

You know why she’s like this, she didn’t just wake up this way one day. You are the adults and you are in charge - it’s going to be upsetting for everyone for a while enforcing rules now when you’ve taught her these tactics work for years but you have to draw a line, set the rules and stick to them and not cave to her demands. She isn’t full of hatred for you, she is frustrated and angry that she’s not getting her own way. Taking the easy way out with her is building future problems for you and her both. This won’t be a quick fix but you need to commit to seeing it through.
No cheese means no cheese and if she won’t eat and is rude it’s a time out in a safe space. If she apologises after time out she gets the rest of her supper. If she doesn’t she goes hungry. Do not offer alternatives
bedtime is bedtime - predictable routine before bed, if she shouts from in bed ignore her, if she gets up keep putting her back as many times as it takes. Do not engage with her just take her back to bed
Will likely be hell for a few days - stay calm, stick to it and wear noise cancelling headphones and ignore all pangs of maternal guilt and worries she will hate you or stop loving you. She’ll likely say she will (because it pushes your buttons) but she won’t. Change is hard!