Dd screams for hours if she doesn't get her own way

[whatswiththerain]

We are so exhausted with it. We put her to bed and she (dd6) will demand a drink/snack/toy/phone and scream for hours refusing to go to bed until she gets what she wants.
Of course we try not to give in but she won't stop and there gets a point where we can't take any more and give in so when we try and be stronger the next time she just fights for longer.
It's every night and bedtime is just an example, tonight she had spaghetti bolognaise and wanted cheese on top she got that and ate the cheese first and screamed and refused to eat anymore without more cheese.
If we give a consequence she'll scream and scream about it and as much as we know giving in is the problem, it's become so much of a problem that it takes over the whole evening and nighttime until we are so exhausted with her we just have to give in because we have no energy left and need to go to bed.
I know we've done this ourselves but I don't know to change it now it's done.

I don't know if this would work for other kids but when my grandson used to have meltdowns because he'd been denied something I'd put him in a bedroom and he'd scream and scream. After a while I'd go in and start talking in a quiet voice and eventually he'd stop screaming and listen to me. I never mentioned what had caused the problem but offered something else which he would like to do/eat/go see. Obviously we only did anything if he was quiet. Gradually he stopped screaming as much and we got to the stage of being able to negotiate fairly quickly which was much more preferable. He's a lovely boy now.

At first my immediate thought was, if she's not understanding no then it maybe she has autism? The spectrum is very broad. I hope things get better for you both. It must be very distressing,draining as well as heat-breaking! The teacher offered some really good advice about consequences in the moment. And another poster maybe the bit about having a reward chart can give the feeling of them being constantly bad, that was also an eye opener. Goodluckkkk prayers are with you both... And yes the posters that are more concerned about the cheese just ✋🏼 have no clue and most likely no kids! P s love how the teacher understood & reassured when said 'eat their weight in cheese'

Do you give her (age appropriate) choices*, or do you just tell her what to do? I agree with a PP that all behaviour is communication, and screaming is not a sign of a happy child. Why does she need to be so in control? How else can you set boundaries without making her feel less in control. She is trying to communicate with you, are you communicating with her, or just saying no, then giving in. My ND child used to use screaming as a way to get what they wanted, and shutting them in a room wasn't an option, so I had to stay, and calmly repeat that screaming wouldn't change the situation (sometimes they'd scream for something I literally couldn't provide) and stay with them until they stopped screaming, then we'd talk it through and I'd offer other choices, but not the one they'd screamed for.

Check with school, how does she behave there? It could be that she's pushing harder for control at home because the school day is completely out of her control.

*this means "would you like A or B?" not "what would you like?"

Hugs and cuddles are considered a reward for the behaviour and would not solve the problem.

No. That is just utterly cruel.

Absolutely this! She has been given the cheese. It was her choice to eat it all before the rest of the meal. I would tell her from now one she gets the cheese either on top or she could have some on the side to sprinkle over as she eats but once the screaming starts, give her five mins to calm down and eat. If she doesn’t calmly pick up her plate and say dinner is finished now. Food goes in the bin and she goes to have her shower.
She’ll soon realise you mean business and are back in control of the situation

Hatred and anger don’t sound like the thing to me. Hard boundaries are actually not working here.

You need to be absolutely sure this isn’t a neurological or other health condition or that she is isn’t dealing with some other kind of trauma.

Screaming for hours is exhausting and kids don’t just do that for cheese or even to get their own way.

Speak to her, go out somewhere not too stimulating, connect and speak to her and listen to her. Also the school and maybe the GP.

Poor all of you. This must be rubbish for her too. I hope you get to the bottom of what is happening for her.

Then don't put cheese on and if she doesn't eat it then she goes to bed.... if my kids are like this I do that. When they say they are hungry in bed, they then get the option of a piece of fruit. My kids are 2 and 4 and don't scream to get there own way. They answer back but they know when it's time to listen to me. Kids need consequences. She wants to scream. Close her door and walk away. Don't give in.

Hi there,
I have worked with children for over 20 years, have children myself.....
Sorry about your predicament, but it's now time for tough love.
Say ' no' , be firm, repetition is key, repeat it 100 times or more, every 5 seconds take a breath and repeat, sit down, say it , and repeat ..you must turn yourself into a ' robot' and do this.
She will scream and shout for hours, but,eventually, her body will give in, even if she's still cross and the anger will turn to tears .
She will cry and shout and possibly stamp her feet etc but this is ' training' her body and mind to eventually realise it is not acceptable.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you that your boundary setting is helping her in the long term to achieve both socially and academically....
It's tough, it may take a whole week if doing this every day, can you take time off? She may relapse and do this again a month down the line , or if there's a change at home/ school etc. but you need to become that repetitive ' robot'.
Consequences may also work in conjunction with this, but only the ' robot' will work first ( you've gone past this stage).
I wish you all the best and be strong, you are the parent ❤️

Its worth investigating any SEND issues also as there may be a communication/ processing issue here that is causing this behaviour, but I'm assuming you/ school have done this?
Sometimes as you have said yourself, it is to do with how the parent has given in.
I am sorry you are experiencing this be strong

I'm sorry OP, but there's a strong likelihood that she's Neuro Divergent. This is about control, she wants to be in control of her environment and body. She may have PDA and this is a type of demand avoidance. Very hard to deal with and you'll need some help. I'm so sorry, I've lived this and it's difficult. Mine is 11 now and much, much better. You need some support. No one understands unless they've been there. These kids do not back down. They will control you and your household. There's loads you can do to make it better, too much for me to write here. I would look up PDA, and autistic traits to see if she has any other traits, although it's very subtle in girls and 6 is too young to see the full picture. Sending you hugs x

My DS used to do this. We called it doodaaing, a silly name for silly behaviour.
The rule was that if you doodaa you miss out. We would literally look at him, face and tone relaxed and calmly say "if you doodaa you miss out" as many times as it took. And carry on with what the rest of the family were doing. Dessert? Yum! Oh but you are doodaaing so you missed out.

It was a rule, not up for discussion or negotiation, what can I say, we all stick by the rule.
It made me feel more in control, because I knew I just had stay calm and not respond apart from repeating the rule.
It worked.

@whatswiththerain

How did it go last night?

I don't think adults need to negotiate with a 6 year old. The brain of the 6 year old cannot handle it.
Adults set the rules, its boring and repetative.

All this stuff is irrational. You need to talk to her about this behaviour before it starts, otherwise she is in no state to see her behaviour through her eyes.

Don’t discuss her bad behaviour when it is happening. I would talk about it during the day before any of you get wound up. Have this discussion daily until she sees sense. There is no way she will calm down when she is kicking off. Explain to her how what she did last night is naughty.
I would consider filming her doing this stuff and play it back to her and ask her to comment. It will take time but you need to create space to reason with her. You and your DH need to do this together imo.

I was that child. It was anxiety based. My mother reacted eventually by smacking, enough to leave marks. It 'taught' me that I couldn't trust my closest adult. Nothing else. The outcome was simply a withdrawn child, not developing natural confidence and afraid of many things. Well behaved on the surface and an unhealthy people pleaser. By adulthood I had a pattern of anxiety and chronic depression. Eventually in later life I was diagnosed as autistic. Things have improved since then. Self understanding helps. Be your child's advocate. Watch and learn from the situations. Educate yourself. It may be a spoilt child. But, it may not.

It was a rule, not up for discussion or negotiation, what can I say, we all stick by the rule

Kids like rules, they know where they stand. Something similar would work as it’s simple and clear.

What’s your advice to OP? She’s not reacting with violence, to date she’s always capitulated. What does watch and learn and educate yourself mean? You seem to be lecturing OP without any specific advice.

Interesting so many posters are mentioning ADHD - we've just be told the not wanting to sleep and struggling to sleep and issues with transitions huge thing we had to manage for two of our kids are huge signs.

With transitions - countdowns - 10 minutes going to bed - talk about upcoming that day events even list with tick off times things we do before bed/before school. Sleep - glass of warm milk/lavender bath all help promote sleep as does consistent routine.

My youngest put herself to bed -toilet trained easily and never had issues with transition - even my older two had different difficult areas. You have to figure out what works for that particular child. Also sticker charts didn't work for one of mine at all made it all worse but it was amazing how many outsiders instead it was the answer and of course it would work.

All this suggested talking can just make things worse because they don't know why they are upset or acting like that because they are a child and don't yet have capacity to understand or explain why. As teens they can tell me too much choice can be overwhelming for them - they needed me to realise this myself at 6 and interceded.

I suspect you've been exhausted and its been easier to just give in as short term it works - long term putting the work in to model and manage their behavior is better - means daily life is easier and helps them understand what they need as they do get older.

How have the past couple of days gone, OP?

Not meaning to pile on OP but she shouldn’t have a phone at her age. You need to be the boss and show her that she can’t rule the roost, it’s hard but you can do it. Best of luck

Watch Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Point out how vile Verruca is. Next time she starts say "Daddy, I want an Oompa Loompa NOW!" Watch Labyrinth - let her realise that life isn't fair "but that's just the way it is".

And you mustn't give in to screaming. Look bored. Look at the clock. Yawn. Ask if she's done screaming yet.

When she's calm, ask why she thinks screaming is acceptable. She's six. Does she scream like that at school? Why does she think it's acceptable at home? What could she do instead? In the case of cheese on spaghetti she could ask if she could please possibly have some more cheese and explain why she needs it. Babies cry because they haven't the words yet to communicate. She has words now and she needs to use them.

She could have Oppositional Defiant Disorder, and some neurodiversity children have it. Would be nice if you could find a specialist, an educational psychologist, your GP.

This. I'm startled (understatement) that the next step in this plan is to nonconsensually upload videos to YouTube, which would create a record of these kids' current behaviour that would not only expose them to bullying from peers and online strangers, but that could come back to haunt them 10 or 20 years from now. This isn't a solution, it's just a vindictive continuation of the power struggle. The practical problem with shame and humiliation-based strategies like this is that you have to make the consequence more and more extreme for it to have any effect, because the young people will either become desensitized to it or they'll ramp up their own behaviour to match. This is especially common for teenagers. I suspect that poster might be making a rod for their future back.

A much more serious problem with using humiliation as a teaching tool is the damage this does to the child and their relationships. This doesn't teach kids to do the right thing for the right thing's sake, it teaches them to do it because they're frightened of their parents. While this might seem like a nitpicky distinction to make when parents are worn out trying to cope and they'd do anything for one day's peace at home, the reality of it will hit hard further down the line. I saw it a lot as a teacher. Many of my pupils had been in YOIs, they'd all been excluded from school, and they were no strangers to punishment. It obviously hadn't solved anything, yet so many adults in their lives thought that the only solution was to do even more of it, often because they were feeling ashamed and humiliated at what they perceived as their own personal/professional failure and they wanted a sanctioned way to vent their frustration on the child. The last thing a parent or professional should do in this situation is act purely based on hurt feelings, as they're basically emulating the child without realising it if they do that. It's the adult's role to do the thinking and deciding, not to get sucked into the child's emotional vortex.

You call a family meeting (all together) when she’s calm, sit her down & tell her that you and daddy are fed up with her naughty behaviour to get what she wants and it stops TODAY.

if she screams or acts inappropriately there will be consequences. Tablet taken away, screen time removed, play date cancelled, party invite revoked. Snacks removed from house,
meals with extras (like cheese) give her her own extras bowl, once she eaten that it’s gone, no more to be had. She is not the parent, she doesn’t control the household, so get strict.
when you go shopping and she asks for a toy, you so NO, you behaved badly yesterday so you lost that privilege.
Maybecreate a “Good girl star chart”, where there is a star for good behaviour and no star for bad and be strict with it, if she reaches certain amount of stars in a week, she gets a treat, but naughty children get nothing. If the bad behaviour is more focused on mealtimes or bedtime then concentrate on that area, if this behaviour is constant then make it an all day.
give her goals to work too, Daddy said if you behave today at mealtime and bedtime then he’ll treat us to cinema or McDonald’s or popcorn and movie night at home, and if she misbehaves you do not give her the treat no matter what. … you say, we’ll try again tomorrow but it’s not looking promising.