WFH - What is reasonable?

[Nutellla]

Looking for views on whether I have unreasonable expectations about WFH. I have worked from home for over 8 years in two different jobs and never had an issue until now. In previous roles I have been trusted to do my job and manage my time accordingly. This has often meant that I work late in the evening when required etc. but during the day, I was able to manage my time (within reason). For example, I always logged on in time in the morning but would occasionally work in a cafe to get out of the house or pop out to do the school run for 15 mins or go to the corner shop if I wanted some chocolate :-) Nobody was ever bothered, as long as my objectives were being met.

I started a new job 6 months ago, I'm senior project manager level with no direct reports. I need to travel 40% of my time, which involves flexibility on my part with early mornings and over night stays etc - I have no issue in this. I also need to work late occasionally.

When I am not travelling I WFH but my line manager and his manager have Teams alerts set up against everyone in the company and if the status changes from 'active' to amber (indicating that your mouse hasn't moved) you get a phone call with some lame question but essentially it's a checking up call. I thought at first I was being paranoid but over the last 6 months the following has happened:

1. I was away from my desk for 20 mins as was dealing with a plumber who had come to fix our shower - phone call from boss
2. Away from my desk for 15 mins having a chat with my neighbour who had brought over a package - phone call from boss
3. Went off line for 25 mins as was working in a cafe and forgot my charger so had to go home - phone call from boss with impromptu 1:1
4. Popped to the corner shop today for 15 mins as I wanted some chocolate - phonecall from boss.
5. Boss has said in conversation, he needs to know where I am at all times.

Are my expectations unreasonable or did I just have it too good in my previous job? If you are WFH is it okay to step away from your desk. Its not like I am customer service or answering phone calls all day. I often don't speak to people (unless it's my boss checking up on me - haha!) There are other issues too and am looking for another job but interested on views if it is the same elsewhere?

Honestly, yes, in my role (and previous roles), it has always been fine to nip out for things during the day even when we're in the office. I've always been on flexitime though.

A previous place I worked frequently did a 2.30 chocolate run to the local newsagents that we all took turns to do. Many of my colleagues get into the office for 9.30 or leave at 3 to do school pick up. Yesterday I had to have a blood test, so nipped out of the office for 30mins early afternoon and just mentioned it to the colleagues near my desk that if anyone was looking for me that's where I was.

The problem is OP has a manager who doesn't know how to manage people. It's very common, particularly for managers who have lots of pre-pandemic experience. Many haven't realised they need to upskill in order to manage WFH employees and so get frustrated and turn into micromanagers.

Honestly, yes, in my role (and previous roles), it has always been fine to nip out for things during the day even when we're in the office. I've always been on flexitime though.

A previous place I worked frequently did a 2.30 chocolate run to the local newsagents that we all took turns to do. Many of my colleagues get into the office for 9.30 or leave at 3 to do school pick up. Yesterday I had to have a blood test, so nipped out of the office for 30mins early afternoon and just mentioned it to the colleagues near my desk that if anyone was looking for me that's where I was.

The problem is OP has a manager who doesn't know how to manage people. It's very common, particularly for managers who have lots of pre-pandemic experience. Many haven't realised they need to upskill in order to manage WFH employees and so get frustrated and turn into micromanagers.

That sounds intolerable! I could not abide that level of micromanagement.

If you are senior, I'd address this head on. If not, I'd look for a new role.

It's very poor management.

This 🤣

I was away from my desk for 20 mins as was dealing with a plumber who had come to fix our shower - phone call from boss acceptable if you then make the time up at lunch/stay on late

Away from my desk for 15 mins having a chat with my neighbour who had brought over a package - phone call from boss ridiculous. A five minute thanks for the parcel sorry I've got to get back to work now.

Went off line for 25 mins as was working in a cafe and forgot my charger so had to go home - phone call from boss with impromptu 1:1

Fair enough - you need to make sure if you do that again you have all you need

Popped to the corner shop today for 15 mins as I wanted some chocolate - phonecall from boss.
Utterly ridiculous you aren't paid to go to the shops.

I don't think this job is for you you're taking the absolute piss.

The word is working from home. Would you think it ok to pop to the shop or do the school run if you worked out of an office?

Why shouldn't you be able to do those things as long as your work is getting done, though?

I work for myself now and happily take half an hour to pop to the shops, or to go home and feed the cats, or sort the washing, or sign for a parcel. I still get my job done so why does it matter?

I think this is unreasonable expectations from them, for someone in a senior role. You could potentially argue that a member of support staff needs to be consistently available because someone might need them for an impromptu task. Like you, I like to pop out to a coffee shop with my laptop, the change of scenery keeps me sane. I've never been questioned about it and I wouldn't expect to be.

Tbh you wouldn't do those things if you were in the office, so why do it wfh.

I guess you could argue that catching up with colleagues during office hours, would take more time then these odd jobs.

I'm on the fence 😂 maybe do a Homer Simpson and get a key presser

I'm wondering how your boss has time to monitor you! I trust my team and am happy with what you're suggesting but in any event my own workload is too busy for me to be checking up on their teams status all day.

It really doesn't sound like you have any idea how most people operate. If I was in the office I might pop out for a coffee or go to the shop to get a snack, I don't do those things because I am WFH, I do them wherever I am. I am in control of my diary and I get my work done. I don't know anyone who thinks this stuff is unreasonable - it's very normal behaviour. I wouldn't have done it when I was 25 but I now have a senior job and I have the luxury to deciding how I am going to manage my time.

I do those things when I am in the office.

You pop out for a bar of chocolate that isn't on your lunch hour?

Wouldn't you?

I've worked lots of jobs where you've signed for parcels and chatted to the driver, where you're able to pop out to shops on a quiet afternoon or where you're allowed to take 10-15 minutes to sort a doctors appointment etc.

Reading threads like this makes me extra grateful for all my previous employers 😂

You pop out for a bar of chocolate that isn't on your lunch hour?

Of course - why not?

A coffee sure. Not 20 minutes! That's absurd.

Have you discussed with your work? Before I accepted a new job I made sure they were fine with working flexibly. I would only have accepted it on that basis.

But it does require a grown up discussion

Also if I am away from my desk for longer than making a cup of tea or similar I put it in my calendar. If I am researching /focussing I put that in my calendar too.

You don't need to buy any device to do it.

Just download some "mouse jiggler" software that runs in the background and will move the mouse pointer every X seconds, if there is inactivity.

Or...you could sit at your desk and work taking breaks within your house.

Also at our work you need specific clearance to work in a cafe because most work is confidential /commercially sensitive and it would be very inappropriate.

I frequently work from coffee shops, depending on what I am working on. I can work on a spreadsheet or a PP presentation just as well in a coffee shop as I can my home office.

No, I'm a workaholic and a people pleaser 😂.... I worked way over my hours because I'm a mug.

Like I said, I'm on the fence. OP needs one of these, as long as they don't work at a nuclear power station 😂

If your boss is phoning people every time teams goes orange they don't have enough to do. Can you talk to their boss?
Popping to shop, taking in a parcel and chatting to a neighbour are all things that could happen if you were in an office

Why is it absurd? Very normal in my place go pop out at random times both at home and in the office

As mentioned about there are different roles to the traditional, operational, need to be present between 9-5 type of jobs

I meant to also stay in the coffee shop to drink it whilst working. It's not absurd at all!

Hope your salary is docked accordingly