WFH - What is reasonable?

[Nutellla]

Looking for views on whether I have unreasonable expectations about WFH. I have worked from home for over 8 years in two different jobs and never had an issue until now. In previous roles I have been trusted to do my job and manage my time accordingly. This has often meant that I work late in the evening when required etc. but during the day, I was able to manage my time (within reason). For example, I always logged on in time in the morning but would occasionally work in a cafe to get out of the house or pop out to do the school run for 15 mins or go to the corner shop if I wanted some chocolate :-) Nobody was ever bothered, as long as my objectives were being met.

I started a new job 6 months ago, I'm senior project manager level with no direct reports. I need to travel 40% of my time, which involves flexibility on my part with early mornings and over night stays etc - I have no issue in this. I also need to work late occasionally.

When I am not travelling I WFH but my line manager and his manager have Teams alerts set up against everyone in the company and if the status changes from 'active' to amber (indicating that your mouse hasn't moved) you get a phone call with some lame question but essentially it's a checking up call. I thought at first I was being paranoid but over the last 6 months the following has happened:

1. I was away from my desk for 20 mins as was dealing with a plumber who had come to fix our shower - phone call from boss
2. Away from my desk for 15 mins having a chat with my neighbour who had brought over a package - phone call from boss
3. Went off line for 25 mins as was working in a cafe and forgot my charger so had to go home - phone call from boss with impromptu 1:1
4. Popped to the corner shop today for 15 mins as I wanted some chocolate - phonecall from boss.
5. Boss has said in conversation, he needs to know where I am at all times.

Are my expectations unreasonable or did I just have it too good in my previous job? If you are WFH is it okay to step away from your desk. Its not like I am customer service or answering phone calls all day. I often don't speak to people (unless it's my boss checking up on me - haha!) There are other issues too and am looking for another job but interested on views if it is the same elsewhere?

The company that you work for sounds like it has an incredibly toxic culture which puts micromanagement above productivity. What exactly is your job so I can make a fair comparison? I am in a senior role but not management, just a worker, however I have never seen this level of micromanagement and wouldn't have stayed anywhere that was this bad. That being said, I'm an engineer and work in tech which is known for it's flexibility so it may not be a fair comparison.

Can't imagine doing that , but as I've said, I've never had an office type job working from home, maybe if I did then I'd take the piss too?

If you meet all your deadlines, attend all your meetings and work all your hours and more over a week, how is it taking the piss?

Yes, people seem to think that working is the standard 9-5 and it's about sitting at your desk for that length of time, regardless of output. Of course, some jobs are like that - you have to be in a call centre (or at your home-working desk) during opening hours, or be in a shop when it's open.

But many jobs are about output and actually it doesn't much matter when you do the actual work - you might have the odd meeting, but as long as you attend those and get your work done to the requisite standard, that's what matters.

Way before covid I had a colleague who worked 6-2 so she was free to do the school run etc.. Flexible working patterns aren't remotely new.

Apologies for all the typo's!

Why do you think it's taking the piss to work flexibly?

She says some of it is given back as TOIL but not all of it. No mention of any extra pay either, which is standard in many senior roles.

But my question was more general as you said it would be taking the piss to WFH and pop out to do personal errands - why would it be as long as the work is getting done properly and on time?

That’s awful @Nutellla i think given your update that I would play them at their own game.
i would log every hour spent travelling and outside of working hours and submit TOIL requests for it every other week or so. They are not reasonable in their company culture and behaviour.

I think it's unreasonable. Your company are getting a good deal but aren't reciprocating. So you are working quite unsociable hours in some instances but also being micromanaged and have no opportunity to take your time back. I would begin to look for something else. You have given this job a go and it's not for you. Are you very well paid? Just wondering if that's a trade off for the aggravation if you don't want to leave.

The salary is market rate. I'm quite specialised in a particular field mostly because I have been working in the sector for 20+ years. I definitely want to leave and this thread has been extremely helpful is showing that there are roles around which don't have the WFH culture that my current job has. I've updated my CV but not seen any roles to apply for at the moment, realistically it will probably take about 12 months to find something new, which is quite depressing.

I have never been in a role where TOIL has been offered, it's not how the sector works. My contract is 8.30am- 5.30pm and I am expected to work additional hours as required. The benefit is that I WFH when not on site and in past roles this has allowed me a degree of flexibility that we need as a family (because I am away 30-40% of the time)

My DH works a similar schedule, lots of time away, over weekends, travel and no guaranteed TOIL.

However when he is home and WFH he would always tell his boss if he had to pop out unannounced for a school run etc. It is common courtesy and builds trust. I personally think it is untrustworthy to pop out mid shift when not on a break without informing a manager / colleague if manager is unavailable

Oh my word that's a long time to have to be in an unsatisfactory job. I work hybrid with WFH regularly and it's up to me to put my hours in but there's no particular pressure to be available online all the time. Sometimes I work more, other days a little bit less so it Evans out. Good luck and I hope you find something sooner. Fingers crossed.

I though under H&S rules you had to move away from a screen every 20 mins or so!!

Have you missed the part where she said she is being flexible by staying away, doing early mornings etc?
If she gives that level of flexibility she is not unreasonable to expect employer to be a little bit flexible too. It cannot work just one way

Noooo! You should look away for 20 seconds every 20 mins or so but that's it

I also have a senior role and would expect the flexibility you describe. If someone started to micromanage me like that I would also leave. You could tell them so they rethink their approach to you alternatively good luck with the job search.