WFH - What is reasonable?

[Nutellla]

Looking for views on whether I have unreasonable expectations about WFH. I have worked from home for over 8 years in two different jobs and never had an issue until now. In previous roles I have been trusted to do my job and manage my time accordingly. This has often meant that I work late in the evening when required etc. but during the day, I was able to manage my time (within reason). For example, I always logged on in time in the morning but would occasionally work in a cafe to get out of the house or pop out to do the school run for 15 mins or go to the corner shop if I wanted some chocolate :-) Nobody was ever bothered, as long as my objectives were being met.

I started a new job 6 months ago, I'm senior project manager level with no direct reports. I need to travel 40% of my time, which involves flexibility on my part with early mornings and over night stays etc - I have no issue in this. I also need to work late occasionally.

When I am not travelling I WFH but my line manager and his manager have Teams alerts set up against everyone in the company and if the status changes from 'active' to amber (indicating that your mouse hasn't moved) you get a phone call with some lame question but essentially it's a checking up call. I thought at first I was being paranoid but over the last 6 months the following has happened:

1. I was away from my desk for 20 mins as was dealing with a plumber who had come to fix our shower - phone call from boss
2. Away from my desk for 15 mins having a chat with my neighbour who had brought over a package - phone call from boss
3. Went off line for 25 mins as was working in a cafe and forgot my charger so had to go home - phone call from boss with impromptu 1:1
4. Popped to the corner shop today for 15 mins as I wanted some chocolate - phonecall from boss.
5. Boss has said in conversation, he needs to know where I am at all times.

Are my expectations unreasonable or did I just have it too good in my previous job? If you are WFH is it okay to step away from your desk. Its not like I am customer service or answering phone calls all day. I often don't speak to people (unless it's my boss checking up on me - haha!) There are other issues too and am looking for another job but interested on views if it is the same elsewhere?

No I didn't ask my employer permission bc I'm not micromanaged like that. I take breaks whenever I want to and as long as I do my work in a timely manner and don't miss meetings, nobody cares, which is how it should be.

And should also be noted that everyone takes breaks when they want without ever having to explain themselves, as long as they are doing their work. I couldn't work for a company that didn't operate like this, and luckily, I will never have to.

Some of us don't have strict "scheduled work hours". We have jobs to do and we manage our time like adults. I have been for a 45 minute walk today and also been to the shop, but I spoke to a colleague after 9pm last night and was on a call at 7.30am today.

Some jobs are strict 9-5 bums on seats roles and some are not. I would go to the shop/gym/for a walk if I were in the office, the same applies when I WFH.

One of our team members has made it her role to monitor who is on yellow instead of green on Teams. I pointed out it's more suspicious if someone is permanently on green!

Would be so exhausting working with someone like that.

She obviously doesn't have enough work to do so would be loading as much work as possible on her

She's the one who constantly moans about how busy she is!

😅 oh she is one of those is she. I have one of them she moans and moans even though loads of coffee breaks etc. when she is off we actually never miss her. she close to retirement so won't be long now and she won't be replaced

Flexibility works both ways. If they want you available out of hours then they have to realise that you may need to do personal things ‘in’ hours, If it’s only going one way then yes, you need a new job.

Oh dear, so these gimmicks actually exist? Why do you need to pretend to work and not actually work? Sorry, just an honest question. So wfh means you set up this device and do whatever else to be seen to able to take calls, getting on with tasks, when you're doing housework/nap/going out? This is what gives the whole trust about wfh a bad name. Xx

Wouldn't it be nice to say our bosses in the NHS, schools, police etc oh just going to sit in a cafe and work lol 😆 I do believe office workers don't have a clue about other jobs, sitting at a desk all day, then wfh with all its privileges, to complain so much about someone checking on them? In reality we are all present so can be seen but still get checked on and micro management being observed and graded while doing our jobs. Someone standing over you with a tick box form while dealing with difficult clients/patients/students during the reality of unpredictable behaviour.

Strewth...

Most of us have done other work! Not many come through school and uni without shop or bar work.

Fully understand why I needed to be at my till when I worked in Tesco.

My current job doesn't work like that though, and if I decide to duck out for half an hour I don't return to a line of angry people with trolleys. I return to exactly the same amount of work I had before I left, which I then get on with.

I also don't work nights, or Christmas.

No, I explained above that I have been sat in the office at my desk talking to the colleague next to me, but my Teams has turned amber. I am RIGHT THERE. And so was she!

And lots of us work on paper, making notes etc. We are not constantly waggling our mice.

This is unreasonable, especially as you give your extra time in travel.

In my wfh job we all have flexibility. And even when I was in an office we could get a coffee or chocolate from the site cafe and no one cared. We also promote wellbeing and getting away from your desk regularly.

I apologise, I didn't see the other part. I'm still learning about this, so even when in the office and working, certain apps still continue to check on activity? All I understood was a gadget to enable pretending to work. Thank you for enlightening me. Unfortunately there is so much SM joking about this issue, which doesn't do wfh any favours, misinformation like so many other things! Xx

Yes, I get that, was just stating that wfh allows one to duck out for half an hour but most jobs don't. I'm thinking more along the lines of wfh with customers trying to call during a lunch break and no one available to answer sort of scenario. If different to that and just getting on with tasks that don't involve clients needing a more immediate response, then of course the hours you choose to do in, that's different. Xx

@Beautifulweeds but that's not how it works
People taking calls get allocated lunch breaks so the phones are always covered
If you're taking calls and WFH you won't be popping out anywhere!

Seems to me a company with a one size approach instead of dealing with the poor performance of a few.

Good luck finding a new job soon.

I'm afraid that degree of control freakery and micromanagement would have me looking for another job.

I'm not in a WFH job admittedly but I the more I read and hear I can't help that thinking that many (not all) who WFH take the piss about expectations of what they can get away with doing during "working hours"... not all these positions can be "that" flexi surely!

I always remember what my first ever 'old school' type boss used to say.. which was you are 'there to do a job of work'... I can't see that wfh should make that much difference to that..

Ah OK, it didnt come across as that, rather just popping out during work and not breaks. I think all the stupid SM joke vids showing wfh as a doss are to blame for this misconception. They may well have been posted for others to laugh and understand if in same situation but for the rest they come across as entitled and lazy.

I know it's a different world now and I'm one of the who has to commute, graft, do extra meetings, then come home to do extra work. Meanwhile my DH can wfh and spend his day doing other things and go out and about, takes calls sitting in the car outside of his bike repair shop etc. X

In my experience Teams goes amber when the app doesn't have focus, e.g. when you're working on something else in another app ... Word or Excel

It does sound micro managed but inclined to think within reason. ‘Fancying some chocolate’ and leaving work to get some isn’t a reasonable excuse to be away from work, unless this was your allocated meal break.

With that level of micro-managing, I would look for a job change or a transfer.
We used to have a manager who would arrange purposely pointless meetings for people's wfh days and check up and check in and spy to the point of being a hindrance to any actual work, as well as a nosy nuisance.
We have a new one now and we are left alone on wfh days as long as the work is done and we are available if required. Like adults who can be trusted.

That's fair when people do a paint by numbers role requiring costant pushing of button / typing thing / talking about stuff; the type of thing hundreds of others do and that can be replaced. Some jobs are different.

For example, I'm paid to think. I can do some of that in an office, and sometimes love group sessions or big workshops. Sometimes though, I can work through something more effectively lying on the sofa, or scribbling on bits of paper, or randomly searching the Internet / white papers for ideas... but I'm still working and often achieving more than I would being distracted by a raft of people in the office with their "just a quick question" that breaks my train of thought. I love my team, but they have to have occasional days of just fixing their own shit so I can work too. Replies to all emails before breakfast might be done from in bed or on the tube, but people get their answer sooner than 9-5. A call on my mobile from outside my kid's swimming lesson gives the same information as being sat at my desk, but that's the only time that suits the caller. If someone wanted to check I was on Teams during working hours, I'd be super confused and very fucked off. I can't see them getting a polite answer to be honest; trust me or I'll work elsewhere would be the basics.