WFH - What is reasonable?

[Nutellla]

Looking for views on whether I have unreasonable expectations about WFH. I have worked from home for over 8 years in two different jobs and never had an issue until now. In previous roles I have been trusted to do my job and manage my time accordingly. This has often meant that I work late in the evening when required etc. but during the day, I was able to manage my time (within reason). For example, I always logged on in time in the morning but would occasionally work in a cafe to get out of the house or pop out to do the school run for 15 mins or go to the corner shop if I wanted some chocolate :-) Nobody was ever bothered, as long as my objectives were being met.

I started a new job 6 months ago, I'm senior project manager level with no direct reports. I need to travel 40% of my time, which involves flexibility on my part with early mornings and over night stays etc - I have no issue in this. I also need to work late occasionally.

When I am not travelling I WFH but my line manager and his manager have Teams alerts set up against everyone in the company and if the status changes from 'active' to amber (indicating that your mouse hasn't moved) you get a phone call with some lame question but essentially it's a checking up call. I thought at first I was being paranoid but over the last 6 months the following has happened:

1. I was away from my desk for 20 mins as was dealing with a plumber who had come to fix our shower - phone call from boss
2. Away from my desk for 15 mins having a chat with my neighbour who had brought over a package - phone call from boss
3. Went off line for 25 mins as was working in a cafe and forgot my charger so had to go home - phone call from boss with impromptu 1:1
4. Popped to the corner shop today for 15 mins as I wanted some chocolate - phonecall from boss.
5. Boss has said in conversation, he needs to know where I am at all times.

Are my expectations unreasonable or did I just have it too good in my previous job? If you are WFH is it okay to step away from your desk. Its not like I am customer service or answering phone calls all day. I often don't speak to people (unless it's my boss checking up on me - haha!) There are other issues too and am looking for another job but interested on views if it is the same elsewhere?

I used to work full time from home.

I never left my desk during My work hours.

I made myself a coffee before I started.

Then I made myself another coffee during my break.

Why would you need to make a coffee during your work hours.

Your poor eyes. And joints. And general physical and mental health.

Agreed. Our senior management actively encourage people to take breaks during the day. If I have nipped to the loo/to make a cup of coffee and my manager rings during that time she never minds in the slightest

Exactly 1000 percent
@BibbityBobbityToo i dunno what company who work for but from a health and safety point of view it not healthy to sit at your desk you are suppose to get up from your desk every 30 to 60 mins to stretch your legs and staring at a screen for long periods of time cause headaches etc. Even before Covid offices were busy with people wondering around going from meetings to office tec aswell as breaks and going to the toilet. If you were on a production line you would have mandatory breaks aswell. Humans are not machines, Dont mistake presentism for productivity. If the employer who you fired has a CF then i guarantee he/she was a CF before WFH came in and it was down to poor management that it wasnt dealt with properly.

That sounds incredibly unhealthy and very, very bad for your eyes, back, neck and general posture (as well as your physical and mental health).

You're supposed to take breaks from your desk every hour to get up, move about a stretch etc.

What you're describing goes against all the guidance about working with computers or at a desk, so nothing to be proud of 😂

🤣🤣🤣🤣 why do offices have tea and coffee making facilities then? Are you only meant to use them at lunch? That’s a new one, I must admit!!

You should look for a new job, and I mean that sincerely. In my old job I practically expected detention if the train was late. Being treated like a grownup and trusted to manage my own time has been a complete game changer and I'm much happier.

Not to mention if you’re doing anything that’s remotely technical, you’d lose focus quite quickly working in that manner.

I WFH for a large company and their official guidance is to get up from your desk at least once an hour as a minimum.

No one ever needs a coffee. Grown ups often want one though. Unless you're in a meeting, why should another adult get to tell you when it is ok to get a coffee (assuming you have an office type job and you're not in the middle of brain surgery).

Well then, in the nicest possible way, you’re a fool and what you’re doing is horrendous for your long term health.

Definitely - after working on a spreadsheet for about 2 hours my head is so wrecked - a half hour walk really helps clear my head after that. Your brain needs time to compress

I'd ask your boss directly why he's calling then log your actual working hours, including everything past 5.30. Aren't you allowed breaks? As a teacher, I am currently on a 50 minute lunch and in my free lesson, I went to the photocopier, the loo, to get a coffee, to give a colleague paperwork she needed in between working (doing something that benefits my department). If I don't get the work done, I'll work through break and lunch, which I mostly have and I'm here 40 minutes before and after work to complete tasks.

The last three offices that I worked in didn't have tea/coffee making machines.

I went out and got a coffee on my break.

None of us need a coffee/ tea that badly!

Sounds like you’ve been quite unlucky in your workplaces then!! Hopefully they had a toilet?!

I wouldn't say I'm unlucky to not have a coffee machine.

I'm not addicted to coffee.

I think it’s quite unusual for an office not have a place where you can make a tea or coffee - would you not leave your desk for a glass of water then? What if you get thirsty?

Do this OP

But sure we have to do what our employer wants. We have signed a contract.

If we want the money, we have agreed to work set hours.

I have agreed to work set hours for set money. I'm not supposed to leave my desk except for assigned breaks.

My aunt works in a totally different job to me. She looks after teenagers in a residential home.

She is also not allowed to leave the teenagers, except for assigned breaks.

That's what work is!

@Abbylikeswine you say that we have agreed to work set hours-so what happens when our employers want us to work outside of those set hours as needed? Should we say no? Because a contract works both ways.

Or should we all be adults and accept the fact that needs can change from time to time and it's important to be flexible and adaptable - which again, needs to work both ways.

Taking everything you've said on face value, it sounds like a horrendous work culture - particularly if they've got alerts on everyone in the organisation (I can to some extent understand why known slackers are monitored in this way). Who wants to work where they're treated like children, not trusted to manage their own workloads, deadlines etc?!

The instances you reference though op, wherever possible I'd have tried to do those things broadly over lunchtime, to avoid drawing attention to myself. A 5 min screen break every hour is usually recommended by OH departments, so not sure how quickly the Amber light comes on after inactivity?

In terms of explaining a 6 month stint on your CV, I'd just be honest and say that the micromanagement culture had become untenable for you.

Set up a meeting with them. Tell them that you need to be trusted to be away from your desk from time to time but you will make up the hours and do not expect to be chained to your desk. Ask them if that is acceptable or should you start looking for another job.

A few people have said " you wouldn't pop to the shop during the day if you were in the office" but where I work that would be completely normal. We work in high pressure long hours roles and going for a walk round the block or to grab a coffee or run an errand is a great way to take a break and recharge especially if your job is not 9-5.

I do similar things when I WFH, it's fine for my boss either way. Because we are grown ups and he trusts us.

It's different for all employers I know.

But none of my employers have actually ever asked me to work outside set hours

Anyway it just sounds like op and the job are a mismatch.

I'm sure that there are work from home jobs that are more flexible than the one she's in

Are we being paid to sit at a desk or to get the work done. It is good to have breaks away from the desk, it’s not good for you to be sat for hours. As long as the work gets completed it’s fine. Flexibility goes both ways.