to wonder if secondaries are really this bad?

[is30tooyoungformidlifecrisis]

I have heard such awful things about secondary schools these days and wonder if parents of teenagers can confirm or deny. Things like:

• Not allowed to take off blazers without permission and kids getting too hot, or opopsite I saw earlier today, not allowed to put on jumper without permission
• Toilets locked during lesson time
• Having to walk in a certain way around the corridors, have heard some students have to walk in silence around school

It seems like secondary pupils are treated like criminals. I'm 30 so have been out of school over a decade but it was nowhere near like this when I was at school - are these just extreme rumours or are they true?

YABU - No they aren't usually like this, that's just a few extreme rules
YANBU - This is what secondaries are like these days

I only do supply these days (Scotland).

A colleague told me that - during an inservice - they were informed that it's not illegal for children to vape.

The last time I did supply, I spent far too much time phoning for back-up because kids were vaping in the open-plan toilets opposite my room.

One of the best schools in Sheffield has no uniform or rules about hairstyles or colours. Their exam results are one of the best in the county. Why more schools can't be like this I will never know.

This sounds like you have children with severe anxiety and mental health issues. Constantly wanting to use the toilets sounds like anxiety and ADHD. Locking bathrooms and rolling the eyes is the opposite of how I would like my child’s school to respond. I’m willing to bet homeschooling these kids would transform their mental health

Permission to.take off blazers - yes. Why would permission be denied? Walking on.left- safety thing. I wish people would focus less on questioning the rules and more on working with school rather than against us. It does not help with retention crisis.

Toilets lovked in lesson tome- if they are vandalised. Regular occurrence. Kids vaping and intimidating younger ones. When Covid was at its height was easier as were designated toilets for each year group.

Seems to me that secondary school was so intent on blazer rules etc to divert attention from kids sitting in the classrooms with ket faces and doing edibles at break.

In many of these cases (toilets being locked ) schools are forced to do these to compensate for terrible parenting.

Some of these are due to schools turning into academies who often adopt an inappropriate corporate mentality.

Others are due to bonkers ideas that come from within the schools themselves.

All those rules you stated are true for my DC school. Though youngest is sixth form now where rules are not as strict.

My daughter's high school locks all the toilets. They are only allowed to go during their break, however, there are only 3 toilets available for 350 female students. This often means my daughter does not go to the toilet within a 6 hour period. There has been times where she has messaged me in urgency, stating that she is desperate for the toilet. I have suggested she stands up and goes but the toilets are locked. They are also locked after school.

There has been many occasions when I've picked her up and she's in incredible pain from holding it in. The sad thing about that blanket rule is there has been several pupils who have had toileting accidents as a result. I've informed my daughter that if she's desperate to go to the toilet and can't go, I will pick her up and take her home. It's a completely barbaric rule and goes against their right to adequate sanitation.

Interested to know if all these comments are about state schools and what it’s like in a typical independent school now.

I went to an all girls independent from age 14 and it really wasn’t this strict - most of is were well behaved most of the time without such rules. Appreciate that parenting has totally gone down hill since then and while these rules may be necessary it’s a pretty depressing read.

That's exactly what my very middle class grammar school was like in the late 1960s. 😂

My ND child would love this school.

She needs a school where everyone is well behaved and listens in class. Where there is order walking around school.

We're looking at schools now and looking for schools with this kind of strict, controlled ethos. Not all kids are chaotic and manic.

Varies a lot, my local school isn't strict like that, but it's an outstanding school that people choose over the the selective schools in the nearby city or private, as in there's even a kid there whose dad is a bonafide movie star.

When I was at secondary school over 30 years ago we had a one-way system in the stairs and corridors.

So you picked up on the smoking but not the no shanking anyone 🤦‍♀️😂

Our secondary was horrendous so I took dd out and sent her privately. She said it was like being released from prison.

I can see the inform argument…DH is a high school teacher and when he says the school cracks down on uniform everything improves. Kids realise they can’t get away with little things so they don’t even try to push the boundaries, this the more serious things are significantly reduced. By extension teaching time isn’t taken away because overall behaviour is better.

Hugging a friend is not chaotic and manic.

And there was no way the teachers could have taught to the best of their ability there, because they were spending all their time and energy thinking about and enforcing petty rules and crowd control. No wonder the results were so average.

These stories make me think we need a radical shake up. Maybe vouchers like Sweden so families have more choice?

I think schools have had to become very strict because many parents have become so lax.

Yep I've worked in 5 secondary schools and see all of this. I have also seen:

Corrections for students slouching or holding a pen when a teacher is doing input (2 corrections and it's a detention, 3 and your sent out)
Silent corridors, silent classrooms
If a student has been spotted rolling up their skirt 3 times then they must wear trousers for the remainder of the term
Seating plans at lunch time - must sit in form group, everyone together. no eating anywhere else in school
A school I worked in didn't even have a morning break - 3 hour long lessons (all in complete silence), followed by lunch, 2 more lessons than home.

Yes they are incredibly strict nowadays, whereas back in the 90s they weren't and I don't remember much issues from my days. However, parenting has changed and parents are less strict, kids no longer fear their parents being called as they have little consequences at home so schools have had to step up the discipline instead.

I went to a very academic private girls school. It had none of these rules or punishments. We had a summer and winter uniform and mostly girls wore it correctly but there weren’t sanctions if you wore the wrong socks or something. They did encourage good manners and wouldn’t have tolerated disruptive behaviour but there wasn’t much of that.

I only ever saw a detention handed out about twice in the whole time I was there and that wasn’t for anything to do with uniform. Behaviour was really good. Results were some of the top in the country. There was a lot of respect between pupils and staff for the most part.

Different demographic to most schools and different school building but you can have a relatively lenient school in those circumstances and it makes for a really nice environment.

My dds private school was quite strict on uniform but apart from that it was very lenient. Gets absolutely fantastic results. Obviously a lot down to the cohort, but it was 'cool' to be well behaved and thoughtful, as well as being able to feel as though you had self determination and weren't part of a battery farm of education.

Not allowed to take blazers off - this has been the norm for years in a lot of schools. I am also thirty and had this rule in my secondary school.

Locking toilets - to prevent vaping - congregations of kids arranging to meet there during a lesson and chatting for ages - toilets being trashed - as long as students are not being denied access to toilets and there is a system of getting a key or someone to unlock the door for them etc there is nothing wrong with this.

Going same way around school - if it is a large school then it is a safety thing - especially in areas where there might be a bottle neck - also means that if the fire alarm goes off students will leave the building in a safe and efficient manner rather than rushing for the same exit.