to wonder if secondaries are really this bad?

[is30tooyoungformidlifecrisis]

I have heard such awful things about secondary schools these days and wonder if parents of teenagers can confirm or deny. Things like:

• Not allowed to take off blazers without permission and kids getting too hot, or opopsite I saw earlier today, not allowed to put on jumper without permission
• Toilets locked during lesson time
• Having to walk in a certain way around the corridors, have heard some students have to walk in silence around school

It seems like secondary pupils are treated like criminals. I'm 30 so have been out of school over a decade but it was nowhere near like this when I was at school - are these just extreme rumours or are they true?

YABU - No they aren't usually like this, that's just a few extreme rules
YANBU - This is what secondaries are like these days

This basically describes my DC school which has been rated ofsted outstanding and is in the top 2% in the country.

I like the strict rules as it also translates into zero tolerance of bullying and bad behaviour- meaning children receive a better education. With regard to the toilets, if your child has a genuine need they are allowed to leave and go to the staff bathroom which is manned and unlocked (class teacher will give a note).

Much better than kids running feral.

Secondary school teacher here.

1. Behaviour is dreadful. Some school’s uniform policies are silly but many are just trying to enforce standards. No one likes it, it’s boring and time-consuming for everyone.

2. Toilets have to be locked as students are meeting up to vape or go on their phone or to take drugs in the toilet. They can still use the toilet if they have toilet passes. You can also use your own professional judgement, a lovely little Year 7 who is clearly desperate will be allowed to use the loo. A Year 11 who meets up with his friends every single lesson and is late/rude/truants cannot.

3. This is to avoid students being crushed. The Michaela school(s) enforce silent corridors, you’d need a particular layout for that to stand a chance. If you saw the way our students went from lesson to lesson you might not think it was such a bad idea!

Lots of the rules seem silly to outsiders. It isn’t until you work in one that you realise they are very much needed.

( edit) - sorry I didn’t mean to quote you but the OP) so this message isn’t directly to you . For the OP to read: locking toilets, not a thing where I teach, students have toilet passes if they have something medical which would mean they would need it more often but also we are encrypted use our judgement, if it’s the same kid asking everytime who does no work and spends ten mins in the loo - its most likely going to be a no compared to the girl or boy who works well and rarely asks to go. We had a child try to hang themself at our school in the loos , weve had children self harm too in them during lessons, hence one of the reasons why we are very strict on who we let out to the loo

I am 44 and we had to walk on the left we would be shouted at if not on the left. Also had to tuck shirt in etc we gad to line up for lessons I remember having to stand up everything a teacher came into room wonder if they do that now . Normal secondary school in Yorkshire
Also I am surprised that more schools in the UK don't do like they do in usa and have metal detectors stop knives being carried etc

😳

Then the child will almost certainly work out that the rules being imposed are arbitrary, unfair, and don't reflect reality; for most people that's when they lose respect for the system and those that run it.

I would have hated this. Some of the boys at our school would have found it funny to listen outside cubicle doors when girls were inside and make comments. They found anything to do with periods and sanitary products hilarious. Also, what about those times when you really need to wash the blood off your hands before dressing yourself? At least have sinks inside some of the cubicles.

Insane.

Obsession with uniform too, and detentions given for minor 'transgressions' like not tucking in shirt or tie slightly too loose. All of which takes up more time and attention from teaching or enforcing against more serious misdemeanours. I think its a v British phenomenon too - from what I've seen on continent there's much more relaxed attitude towards school dress. But, seems like lots of parents love the idea of the strict school with harsh uniform policy - though seems pretty superficial to me.

I think the floor to ceiling dividers are a red herring for safety.

The changing rooms at my swimming pool 30 years ago were mixed sex and there were lots of peep holes drilled into the dividing walls. Us girls would plug them with tissue paper to get changed.
When I was a little older (19?) I went into one of the family cubicles with my then foster sister who was a young girl to help her change and I saw the tissue in one of the holes slowly being pulled out.
I was already dressed tso I put my towel in the way, got my foster sister quickly dried and quietly left and alerted the staff. As we left they were waiting outside the changing room door. We waited and watched and saw them escorting a middle aged creepy looking man out of the leisure centre.

I'll never forget it.

Mixed sex - no thanks.

The pervs always find a way.

Yes to points one and three at my DC schools

One way systems were in place in my secondary in the 90’s. 3 floors on one block - every other floor went different way. Pita when your next lesson was next door but the wrong way, but we survived.

I really thought I’d come to this post and see ‘Look how bad secondary schools are…low levels of staffing, difficulties in retaining staff, low expectations of pupil achievement, lack of resources, crumbling buildings, lack of appropriate professional
input for SEND etc etc’. Yes there are schools including our own local one that is in special measures for the third year and the misguided leadership are trying to regain some control by enforcing these rules. Ofsted keep saying how terrible the place is but I can’t see much input in helping to improve it. Failing so many young people!

This is absolutely awful - how is she expected to learn and be worried, hungry and dehydrated too?!
Please stand up for your children everyone, don't let them get away with this!

I really can't see the problem with any of these rules they sound like common sense rules to me.
I left school 45 years ago and it was exactly like this. The school is consistently one of the top 10 state schools in the UK.
They must be doing something right..

i'm 40 and apart from toilet thing we had same rules when we were at school. couldn't ever take blazer off especially walking home. walking round school was single file to the the left in silence

We had this at my school too! (Many years ago). Aswell as having to ask to take blazer off

Went to strict uniform school.
Violations got demerits & detention.

Student would have to be a complete idiot to not be able to comply. And the non-compliers usually kids who ended up with bigger behavior problems.

Seemed to me … being unable to wear same thing every day was a good indicator of future poor school performance.

Untucked shirts, Weird short fat ties, wrong color sock/shoes - you had to TRY, make an effort and work at being that F-up student.

Name the school or else I call absolutely bollocks.

Yes this was a thing when I was at school in the ‘90s.

My DDs school has this and it works well as it's also an open entrance so the boys can't go near the doorsnwothout being seen. Much better than the toilets we had as teenagers where it was a no go zone unless you wanted to get battered. I never water drank at school!

Not like this at private schools, plenty of rules and punishment when they are broken... but smaller schools probably have less issues.

I'm 45 and this is what my school did. There were other things too, stand up if a senior teacher entered the room. Coats or hairbands of the wrong colour confiscated for a term

Anyone who thinks these rules are harsh or unnecessary clearly doesn’t have a clue how awful behaviour is these days!
I left a school this year where students and staff were pushed in corridors and on stairs leading to some serious injuries. The same students spent most of each lesson in the toilets (usually vaping) The same students would also run around the school site disrupting other classes etc. This school is now in special measures and is probably quite extreme, however, the school I worked in before that was only slightly better in terms of behaviour!
The blazer thing is a control thing, ask any teacher how much worse behaviour is on non uniform days!

I completely agree. It all seems an arbitrary nonsense that we are obsessed with.