solo day out - unwanted company

[FrescoeDay]

I actually know I'm not being unreasonable but my reaction may be out of proportion and I need help wording my response for my desired outcome - solitude.

I'm on a sort of retreat in Italy. Tomorrow I arranged to go on a day trip away from the base to look at some art. I'd arranged for the car to the station, bought my train ticket and was looking forward to it. I told my next door room mate who told someone else who over dinner tonight said he was coming along 'if I didn't mind.' Of course I don't mind him going to the town and looking at the art. If he is here a week it is his opportunity. Of course I don't mind if he catches the same train - although, honestly, I don't want to chat and be friendly and 'on' for an hour plus on the train there (and back?!) Why should I?

I do not want to spend 6 hours going around museums galleries, churches, having lunch, with a stranger. I prefer to look at art alone at my own pace and have my own responses. But over dinner I could hardly say that. The prick (pardon me) cornered me. I am so angry I'm finding it hard to relax. This may be disproportionate. The thing is I am quite able to be cold and freeze people if I feel like it - but I don't want to introduce awkwardness let alone animosity. I am meeting the driver of the retreat tomorrow morning and this other unwanted guest. I don't want to stop him if this is his one chance to go to the town. But I refuse to have my day stolen from me because I end up being polite to this man. I need a healthy middle ground. I am 46. I can't believe I am still being imposed on like this. I don't want to snap but I may.

Thanks for hearing me out. Perspective needed. This has touched a nerve you can tell. I would just never ever do this.

I've flicked through your responses- except from saying he also fancies going into town, at what point in that conversation did he say you were responsible for his itinerary? So you share a car, the train, and tell him that you'll meet again at x time for the train, and see you later. I don't think he's forcing you to entertain him.

I get that this feels more assuming than you or OP would like. I'd probably be far more careful as well, partly because I'm a woman who's received all the lifelong messages about how I'm supposed to always be terrified of being perceived as the slightest bit abrasive or an imposition others, and partly because I'm just aware that many women will feel guilty or uncomfortable saying "actually, no" so I actively try to avoid that.

My point is that (as hard as it may be to put ourselves in that mindset) many people are totally comfortable responding to "I'll come along if you don't mind" with "No thanks, I do mind." They don't think of that as being cast as the bad guy or pushed into a corner because they're totally ok matching that level of forthrightness, and they don't necessarily anticipate others not being the same.

Yanbu OP, I'd feel the same.

Reminds me of this recent thread:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5119796-do-you-invite-yourself-places?page=5&reply=136849997

I get why you're disappointed op but I think deep down you're mostly annoyed with yourself.

Your main mis-step was telling your next door room-mate about your plans at all. Sharing plans in detail like that is often seen as an unspoken invitation that you'd be happy for company. Next time be vague and don't share information with people.

Your other big mis-step was not saying no immediately when the man suggested it. But you've realised this.

I'm sure you'll sort this out fine in the morning. But going forward I'd work on this because if you enjoy/prefer solo travelling, this will come up as an issue repeatedly. Your main tactic should be not sharing your plans with people in the first place

Yes do this but don't mention tomorrow. Just say it is too hot today.

Good luck

I think a good thing to do would be just not say anything at all if this happens

I totally understand that many people won't implicitly understand that others might not be ok with something they would be ok with (I'm not neurotypical myself and sometimes it baffles me that something is "expected") but most people on this thread (over 90% at the moment) do see this as rude and I think in an ideal world everyone would be aware of things that are generally considered rude. That said we should all be as compassionate as we can when someone just hasn't picked up on some aspect of social etiquette - few of us go through life getting everything right. I guess the guy's reaction tomorrow will be telling - whether he just hasn't understood why this has created such strong negative feelings for the OP or if he's purposely trying to push her boundaries for his own gain.

As an example, say you want to go to the cinema alone tomorrow. It's important to you that you are solo.

Fellow holiday goer asks "what are you doing tomorrow?"

Correct response: "oh I'm going out from the retreat tomorrow, I want to spend some time alone I think." [Don't be more forthcoming. Politely and smilingly change the subject.]

Incorrect response: "I'm going out from the retreat, I'm going to watch Despicable Me at the Everyman, the 11.45am showing. I'm going there by the 9.26am train and I'm getting to the station by taxi [which has a capacity for 4 guests]"

Sharing your plans in detail does come across as an unspoken invitation

Exactly.

Learn to say no..Clearly and unequivocally. Keep practicing. It's a useful skill as a woman.

He didn't ask her if he could come on the day out, too. He didn't ask her if he could just share the car ride. He told her he was coming with her, tacking on the polite nicety of "if you don't mind". That was placing her in a difficult position.

If he'd bolted up to her privately, to ask the same thing, I doubt he would have phrased it like that. There is pressure in presuming such a thing, in front of others. It's pushy. In what world would he privately say, "I'm coming, too... if you don't mind." It is an entirely different conversation when not in a group, and when not presented as an assumed reality.

But perhaps you've not encountered as many slimey men as some of us have.

WHAT? So any woman who hasn’t specified that she wants to be alone should expect a man to invade her personal peace?

I've encountered plenty of slimy men, thanks.

I also know how to recognize that people can have different views of things without making assumptions about them or implying they're ignorant. It would be nice if you would try to show the same courtesy.

I'm not sure what was courteous about your long patronising posts, explaining that people are different.

He didn't ask her - he told her he was coming. I think that says it all. But by all means make excuses for him.

Literally if she has leprosy

Ah yes. No one can be thoughtful or evenhanded on MN, that's just patronizing women and defending men. I forgot.

I'll try again.

RAGE, OP. He's evil, he wants to ruin your trip, he takes joy in depriving you of what you want. You should spend all day resenting him, and maybe find some other participants to rant to. Definitely make a big scene accusing him of being an asshole. [insert my on tangentially related story about how a man was overly aggressive towards me at a bar 6 years ago because I need to project]. Don't bother waiting to find out how he responds to you saying you'd like to be alone, just assume the worst. Never forget that you have been viciously wronged not just by this man but by all men.

There. That's more the MN spirit.

I can't believe anyone is defending this needy, pushy arsehole. OP I'm fuming for you, bring headphones to the train and tell him you need to catch up on a few podcasts whilst travelling. Have a great day Bob etc. Nothing more suffocating than a clinger. If he's offended so fucking what!

YANBU

I wouldn't even want to share the taxi with him, and have to make 'chit-chat' first thing in the day.

How long is that part of the journey? It sounds awkward AF - and no, not everyone enjoys making friends with some pushy bloke.

OMG this would make me so angry too. Why do they do this? Why can’t they leave us alone in peace?

I think you should tell him before you go. He may fancy seeing the art but doesn't want to go on his own, he now thinks you are going together but that is not your plan.

No need to complicate things so much, if he is in a retreat he will understand perfectly that you may want time in your own. Just tell him cheerfully that you’ll see him later at the retreat when you leave the car.

I don't think the way to make friends is to invite yourself on other people's days out. Especially when they have given no indication that they want company.

Also saying that you don't want to make friends is an overkill. He could reply that he didn't want to be friends with her but just thought they'd have a day out and that would make her look stupid.

It's much better just to say I'm planning to have a day to myself but it's fine to get the taxi together and see you for the cab back at x time. If his feelings are hurt that's frankly his problem and an overly fragile ego, not the OPs. We should be able to be told that someone else (a complete stranger here, not the OP's partner) wants a day to themselves without collapsing!

I find lying is the best option. When you get into the train, you say 'I am going to have to sit separately from you as I am expecting a few phone calls I need to take and I need my space'. In town you say 'I am afraid I shall have to leave you as I need to do a few things'. Sorted.

I don't hate MN as a whole, but I do dislike some facets of it.

I didn't start in the UK but I live here now.

Life is complicated like that.