To chose holiday over baby?

[Thelittleenginethatcouldd]

posting for traffic, posted in chat too

I’ve got 2 lovely children, but since my second was born I’ve known I wanted a third.

we have the space (although would need to upsize in the future) and the car and the income about (120k a year) and some great state schools in the area, as well as very generously discounted nursery for instance FT with 15 hrs is about £550 a month. Our mortgage is small and will get smaller when rates drop (we’ve got a high fix). We pay the max into our pensions (about 15% each), save for the kids. Plenty of progression work wise.

BUT, I spent my entire twenties studying and then fell pregnant quite soon after getting married, and there are so many lovely places I’ve always wanted to visit and things to do.

we could afford to do one big holiday every year ( I shop around, maybe every other year if we went really big the year prior) BUT with another child it would be more like one every 3 years. Now I now this is not really a problem, but I’m so conflicted, and due to my age I just don’t really have the time to kick the can down the road. Has anyone else ever thought this? I can’t bring myself to part with any baby things or clothes and I know I yearn for another, but also I feel like there’s so many wonderful places that I’d love to take my kids and see myself (the Caribbean, California, Maldives, Canada, china, Japan etc)

I’m a penny and the bun person as well as a dreamer, anyone else stood where I’m standing now.

edit to say I’m 35

If things are this good now they won't improve with having another child.
You can't predict the future. I do wonder if I knew in advance how difficult life would be with my 2 kids if I would ever have had them. They are teens and the last 7 years have involved a serious health diagnosis requiring 24 hour monitoring, serious mental health issues for one child and 2 diagnoses for them, constant management of meds, frequent changes of plans etc etc.
If I'd had a 3rd child with issues honestly I dunno if it would be physically possible to manage.
And when mine were 3 and 5, no, there was no indication of their future issues.
Good luck with your decision.

I know more than one person who has this life then had another child a good few years later and they weren’t one more like the others but had significant needs, possibly due in part to elder parents, and in their more lucid moments say they wish they’d stuck.

Sounds to me like you want another child. So have one!

Mum of 3 here with a serious wanderlust and I would choose a life in a cardboard box over not having our 3rd.
Although I totally get your travel desires, i like to think about what you're gonna appreciate more when you're older? Situations can change, your health, income etc are stable at the moment, but there's no guarantees you'd even be able to travel if life kicks your butt. Whereas yes that might affect your ability as a parent but you've still got the chance to know and love another person, creating memories that you will cherish in the everyday.

If it were me and you don't feel like you're done, I'd see what happens. Generally anyone i know with kids know when theyre "done", myself included. I never felt it 'til after #3. It might not even happen for you, and that's ok, and then the decision is made for you. But if it does, it doesn't stop you travelling, you have an extra travel buddy and (based on current situ) do your big trip every few years and explore the world in other ways inbetween. Plus they're basically free to travel with for the first 2 years so get a big holiday or 2 planned ASAP!

This^

Have the baby.
We chose to have a 3rd, with much.the same age gap yours are likely to have. Yes, it delayed some things (like the holidays), but worth it. Selfishly, it has also meant when the oldest 2 have grown and left home, the youngest was still here 😀.
Holidays are great, but the children will love a gite in France as much as Singapore.

I always wanted 3, had my third and now would love a fourth. I thought I'd feel done at 3, now I could imagine having a fourth or even a fifth. I never expected to feel that. My friend who wanted 4 and had 3 started to finally feel done and ready to move on when her youngest turned 10 years old. She was moving into a different stage in her life. I'm hoping I'll feel the same when mine are older.

Try not to let uni be a determining factor, mine worked through uni and helped themselves aswell and if you are saving already, that'll help.
I remember working out in my head how much they would cost, 3rd definitely didn't make as much difference as i calculated.
Fourth would change your car and magnums ice cream s come in boxes of 3! 😆 every little helps....
Top box on car for holidays worked with three., but they've all just finished uni and had great holidays.
I would say if you're thinking loosing a few holidays, maybe you aren't feeling ready in your heart of hearts.
Only my perspective, with my life, but maybe
with others mumsnet users it might all help.

This is so off topic but I’m curious. How are you guys getting child support? We have the same income and we don’t.

I've got a bit to add here as I have three (now 18, 16 and 14, the elder two with ASD - I'm 45), have an independent travel agency as a side business and have a close family member who left it later (not much later than 35, but a bit) and had a child with additional needs which couldn't have been diagnosed by a test.

The main considerations having three are practical ones - I still can remember being astonished that three car seats wouldn't fit in the back of our huge estate car! You need more room in your house (but not really until the kids get bigger) and clearly three kids are more expensive than two, although you can reuse many of the things you'd have to buy.

We do a pretty poor job of helping out families of five in the UK, in France for example you get a huge reduction in their equivalent of council tax, discounted travel etc. The main package holiday companies cater to the largest market (i.e. couples or families with one or two kids) but it is actually really easy to find exciting holidays where three kids are no more expensive than two - one example is interrailing. You need to do your research and book it yourself or through an agent - the former being both fun and frustrating and the latter being easier (I know which safari lodges sleep five for example), plus cheaper if you find a good one!

The main driver of cost is actually being restricted to going away in the school holidays - short of moving to Leicestershire or Scotland, or sending the kids to private school (which can hardly be described as a cost cutting measure!) there's not much you can do about that. For the sort of long haul holidays you describe, the main cost is the extra flight ticket, inevitably you can find a hotel / villa which sleeps five. My other thought, which others have said, is that the kids when younger didn't really appreciate the long haul holidays (Caribbean isn't too far, but the Seychelles is) and would have been just as happy on a beach with an ice cream anywhere. Now they are older, they definitely appreciate going to more exotic places especially as they didn't do it when they were young.

Having a child with additional needs won't stop you going on holiday, so I would say it is a consideration worth thinking about and certainly not dismissing, rather than the main reason for a decision not to have another. My family member if anything goes on more holidays (she needs the break - and sometimes her and DH go alone or separately) but day to day life is much harder and at least 48-50 of your weeks a year are going to be at home. My wife had to put an enormous amount of effort into our eldest two which paid dividends in the long run, but life is much more difficult. That is also the case with three children generally - we just thought it was chaos - before we had two pairs of eyes/hands etc and could pull them apart - which is nigh on impossible with three.

Finally, and this might sound a bit silly, but clearly choosing a third child is a permanent decision whereas if you decide you didn't enjoy a holiday, there is no reason to book another one or at least one of the same type! I wouldn't swap our third for the world, but it is worth thinking about what you value in life and what is most important to you.

Someone once said to me, you will never regret having another baby, but you may regret not having one.

And so I had a 3rd.

We are pretty comfortable - higher salaries, but perhaps a more expensive area/lifestyle because we not as well off as you, but we do travel well! so I think some of it is about your own priorities.

Some people don't get the chance to have any. Be content with what you have. I know several people who would give their right arm for just one child. And quite frankly, why are you even asking the question? You mostly seem like you're not interested in any of the responses. And I know I'm going to get shot down for this, but why so much detail about your perfect little life? Your idyllic holidays, your savings for your kids, your affluence..... why did you need to go into such detail? You don't want another child... you want people to tell you how wonderful you already have it. Sorry, but you're annoying me. And before I'm accused of jealousy, I have 2 children, one grandchild, and am comfortable.

I stuck to one!! Mainly because we like big, far flung or adventure holidays and lots of them and we didn't want to have to wait til DS was older to enjoy them - we wanted him to experience them with us. So, for me if you can do that with the two you have i'd stick with that! But hey, that's just me!

Going to be honest. I read this and thought "first world problems 🙄". If the only sacrifice you have to make it having a Holiday to Japan or Florida every third year instead of yearly it's a no brainer ..have another kid if that's the only snag. If it's more than that give it further thought. I don't think your children will need to visit a counsellor in the future due to having less frequent exotic holidays. And I don't think you need to consider how it might effect bank rolling your kids in the future beyond childhood. Isn't part of adulthood financial independence??

Side note: My personal opinion is I don't believe in being excessive with children re: experiences and material things. Your time and good grounding is the most important gift you can give any child. Several of my friends have been 'given everything' and struggled with debt early on in adulthood trying to maintain a lifestyle their income could match. Even now in their forties trying to 'keep up with Jone's' means crippling hours and poor family time/ life balance trying to have the best house and the best things. Sadly they believe these things are the basic building blocks of life and they cannot be happy otherwise.'. Just food for thought 👍🤔

Correct and they probably won't even remember it.

But that's not always true. Many people do regret having another baby

Absolutely. Just giving my experience. 😊

Do you mean child benefit?

we only just started claiming that this year as the threshold was moved from £60k pay it all back to £60k start paying it back. So we’ll pay about £300 back. I did the calc online.

tax free childcare- anyone can have that as long as both parents are working and no one party earns over £100k

funded hours- again, each nursery does them differently. But they are meant to be totally free, so the nursery has to make those hours cost neutral to the parent. So as a result of the hours (and because the nursery is part of a school so I think as a different operating and cost model than a private nursery) we pay for 2 days a week, youngest is in 4 (we work condensed hours).

If you earn the same, you should be able to qualify too. Unless one of you earns £100k and the other £20k

Oooh you’re straight to the point.

i love it!

real food for thought!

@Thelittleenginethatcouldd,

yes sorry, not a native English speaker and confused the two!

Thanks so much for the explanation. We get the funded hours childcare now but I thought we weren’t eligible for child benefit. We both earn under 100k.

Ha! Yet you cared enough to comment

the obvious reason it was mentioned is because naturally that is what people always ask when debating a child, if you are thinking long term for them/ yourself. You know this.

the point was I want to go on lovely holidays. Not that I do go on out of this world holidays.

admittedly we did go on one lovely holiday this year and I loved travelling with my kids. Hence my dilemma.

its not wrong to have aspirations, it’s also not wrong to talk things through which is what I’m doing here.

The old Tory gov recently changed the threshold on paying back CB.

it used to be you started paying it back at 50 and had to pay it all back at 60 but now it’s start paying it back at 60 and pay it all back at 80.

so depends on your earnings. Worthwhile checking it out and if you’re eligible putting in another claim, they’ll backdate 3 months.

Teenagers are expensive. Also, if one of them is in a crisis, it can take a hell of a lot of mental energy. Helping them in Planning for their futures age 17 and 18 can be a pretty stressful period. I think two is a lovely number. It is great to be able to help your children with uni costs and driving lessons. I would choose that over a third child any day.

I have 4 children and our income is way less than yours. We enjoy staycations. I dont know what your prefrences are but we love them, caravans holidays are the best. Having another baby wouldnt prevent holidays, it may make fancy abroad holidays abit rarer but you can still enjoy a holiday without the hefty abroad prices. You could do staycations like camping, glamping, forest lodges, caravan sites etc and maybe do a fancy holiday every few years or so, this way the kids could experience variety and quality time. Theres nothing more i loved growing up than a camping or caraven holiday, all warm and snug playing games while the rain is crashing down outside. Its definitly doable.

Yes.. it's the kind of thing you discuss with close friends... Do you quote all the details of your finances to them?? Or don't you have friends, hence posting on here about this "dilemma" !!! And as for other posters suggesting staycations, I think they failed to note that it's the carribean and Japan you want, not a caravan holiday.

But finances are relevant here because I’m not rolling in it, some months are more expensive than others, and we always have random things that need getting/ sorting and no I wouldn’t discuss my finances with my friends in great great detail because it’s awkward but yet on an anonymous forum it’s less so. But I am an avid deal hunter. And I shop around hugely.

for instance I can find a week in the Caribbean for around £3.5k, likewise same in Dubai, whilst yes that’s expensive it’s not crazily so or less than some might expect. We went on our big ticket hols (financed by some money I came into suddenly I hasten to add) and then a very cheap summer hols. So yeah I’m totally open to caravan holidays, and euro camps and centre parcs eu and all that.

you might not like my thinking for the future, and that’s ok, we’re different, but that doesn’t make invalid (you can see posters on the thread have had similar thoughts). Not sure why you felt the need to comment if it’s so irksome, most people just scroll on by