To wonder (thinking about this awful French rape case) if humans are just rotten

[OptimismvsRealism]

It wasn't just the husband - at least 80 men went along with this. Guys with ordinary lives drawn out of nowhere.

I wonder if it would be better if we were to just wind things up as a species.

Feel free to start your own thread about how awful women are then.

Absolutely horrific case.
Makes me insanely angry.

Well I think you have unwittingly illustrated why we have a problem with men. Its because so many people like you have the unconscious belief that male violence is a problem caused by women and has to be solved by women but not by men.

Boys are programmed by evolution to look to the male role models in their life for how they should behave, with their Father having a strong influence. Young men being violent will predominately be due to how they have seen adult men behave, or how they have been treated by adult men.

Yet you don't even mention the role of the Father but lay all the blame on the mother.

Male violence against women is caused and perpetuated by men throughout generations and across cultures. If men wanted to end it, they could, and probably quite rapidly. Women never can, no matter how hard they try.

And btw, I don't believe you can have brought your son up to be a feminist when you hold such views which blame women as mothers yet absolve through lack of mention the role of men and Fathers.

All of those women had male partners. None acted alone.

I couldn’t believe it. It made me feel sick to my stomach.

The fact she was exposed to HIV 6 (!) times too! Then he had the nerve to say she had cheated on him! Jesus CHRIST.

Another compassionate response. So essentially your argument is that as the victim of a female perpetrator, I should keep my nose out of this discussion? Am I intruding on your safe space?

Yip. I didn’t used to buy into the “men are from Mars, women are from Venus” narrative but now I seriously wonder if they really are wired differently to us biologically. So bloody depressing.

There’s plenty of female perpetrators that have managed terrible crimes without male assistance as you very well know. So disingenuous

I'm sorry to hear about your experience of abuse.

But this is a thread about male violence against women.

Yes, some women commit abuse and murder, but when they do, it is rare and it is not plugged into an overarching patriarchal structure of systemic female oppression in the same way that male violence is.

Women need to be able to name male
violence and discuss it without having to constantly caveat it with 'Not All Men' and 'Some Women Too'.

I've no doubt if you discussed your experience on a separate thread you would receive nothing but empathy, which you deserve. But this thread is not the place for it.

Some people are awful, some aren’t. It’s always been that way. 🤷‍♀️

Indeed. I recall reading years ago a report about women who were trafficked for sex. Some male perpetrators were interviewed and one said that he went into the room- saw the woman was handcuffed to the bed and sobbing and so in order to minimise her distress he did his business quickly and left. he seemed to think he was a good guy

I've read the same thing in quotes from punter.net or whatever it is called, the site for men who pay to use women sexually. Quote after quote from men who suspected the woman they saw trafficked and did not want to be there, yet they ALL still had sex with her. One from a guy when the woman was wincing with pain when he had sex with her so he got her to give him a blow job instead and seemed to thing that made him a good guy. These men are reprehensible.

The claims she had cheated on him were part of this large scale gaslighting that he was doing, claiming she had dementia and that she was prone to falling asleep in company. Whereas it was because he'd drugged her, that's why she was falling asleep all the time. Everything he said was to put doubt into her mind (and other people's) about the truth and to obfuscate and distract.

I said you’re free to start your own thread if you want to discuss the big problem of women violence.

This thread is not about male violence Actually, the OP has been subject to a pile on because she’s dares to question the state of the human race in general.

and meant kindly, who the fuck do you lot think you are telling people like me we are not allowed to discuss our experiences on a thread like this

Even the word 'rape' is all about the theft of one man's property by another. It's from the Latin word for 'snatched away', or 'nicked'.

As this awful story shows, the offensiveness of rape is still based on a world view in which the crime is deemed to be perpetrated against another man, rather than the physical victim, who, being a woman, has traditionally had no legal identity.

Women and men who aren't disgusting need to stay angry until this is not true, either in the letter of the law or its spirit.

Some would say we live in a fallen order...

So you’re trying to silence me basically? Can you not see how fucked up this is? How dare you decide that this thread is simply about male violence, especially given the OP began it by asking about human violence.

This case and the murder of Rebecca Cheptegei are just two sickening incidents amongst many.

Blaming women for the way their sons turn out is just fucking simplistic, garbage. Males are not brought up in some kind of vacuum where their mother is the only influence on them. Women are not the problem here, men are.

It makes both men and women very uncomfortable to talk about the huge, overwhelming problem of male violence. Therefore, the "not all men", "but my man is lovely", "the mums are to blame" "what about Lucy Letby or Myra Hindley" etc etc.

Because it’s crass and derailing.

I wonder if men's evil / depravity is connected with power over others and women are the easier target, less likely to fight back and so the subject of their inadequacies and horrendous nature. This is an example of the worst of the male species, without a doubt!

I am in awe of the woman's (sorry do not have her name to hand) courage in publicly testifying about all utter horror she has endured. Just skim reading it has made me want to throw up. Those MEN who participated, bet most of them have wives, sisters, daughters and nieces and they all had mothers yet they took part in utter depravity and perversion. It does make me despair but I try to hope that the majority of men are sickened and repulsed by the actions of these monsters

Well, the OP was wrong in calling it human violence given that over 80 men went along with it.

A bit like looking at the recent actions of the Taliban and saying "Ooh how terrible humans are".

How is suggesting you start a thread trying to silence you?

Yes this thread is about male violence, as the majority clearly gets and understands. Stop derailing and looking for a fight, I’m not engaging with you further.

In all honesty, I find your responses to this poster to be really revolting with their undisguised sneering contempt.

@KurtShirty I am sorry for what happened to you. I can understand how it affects how you see discussions like this, even if I do think it is necessary for us to have these discussions about male violence.