To wonder (thinking about this awful French rape case) if humans are just rotten

[OptimismvsRealism]

It wasn't just the husband - at least 80 men went along with this. Guys with ordinary lives drawn out of nowhere.

I wonder if it would be better if we were to just wind things up as a species.

No, I think that’s exactly what you’re doing actually. Let’s talk about the serious problem of male violence but let’s be accurate

Offensive title.

And the thread will go the predictable way of the generic humans being the problem (it's men) and that 'women do it too' (we don't, not on even approaching a similar scale) and that 'NAMALT'.

AFAIC, anyone coming out with these woeful, predictable, tedious, thread-derailing platitudes - and particularly the accusation that any woman who doesn't is a 'man-hater', can stick them up their arse sideways. With pins in.

I am a victim of gang-rape - not, of course, on anything like this scale. This story is depressing and distressing beyond measure, as are the tone of some of the responses. It makes me feel sick just thinking about it.

Why do you find it astonishing? Each of those had a male accomplice after all.

We know it’s men. When you look at the list of the rapists’ jobs, ambulance service and nurses stands out. How many threads have there been on here where women express a preference for female healthcare workers and are told by other women that they’re sexist? That these are professionals ?

The poster is minimising male violence with whataboutery. It’s crass and insulting. Especially pointing out that it’s not just males who rape. I’m fine with my responses.

I think it's amazing that Gisèle Pélicot has waived her right to anonymity. What an incredible woman. She did this, according to her legal team, to "shift the shame back to the accused". I'm hopeful that her bravery in speaking out in public will help focus public opinion. In some way too, it may help in the journey of healing she will have to undertake for the rest of her life.

And yes, I also refuse to accept that my sex class has anything to do with this crime. I really feel for anyone who has been sexually abused (which is most of us women, to some extent) including those abused by women, but let's not lose focus on the horrific actions of those men.

Until there is an open and frank discussion about male on female violence
How is has escalated and how it's just brushed aside as one or two bad apples, then nothing will change.
It's men!
Men do these things!
Men abuse women!
Men kill, hurt and rape women!
It's not humans it MEN!

Anti-male sentiment?? Most of us have good men in our lives that we love very much. But we shouldn't hurt men's feelings by expressing outrage at what some (far too fucking many) men are capable of???

This, absolutely

This.

Not all men, but always men.

And the reporting of attacks etc against women is always reported so delicately to protect men.

Look at the Olympic athlete murdered by her boyfriend. News reports it as being killed in a petrol incident. What actually happend is she was killed by her boyfriend pouring petrol on her and setting her alight.

This, and the poor woman who took days to die from her partner setting her on fire has put the thought in my head, “men hate us” and it won’t go.

Thank you. And yes we need to discuss it,. For what it’s worth, as well as being abused by a woman, I was also very seriously abused by my dad, I feel I have a right to speak on this subject as much as anyone else

She is incredible

Unfortunately I often think about things like sex trafficking (not even the traffickers but the men who pay for sex with the women), all the stuff on the dark web, paedo rings, etc. the sheer number of MEN that are wrong uns is so scary

They all committed their crimes with men.

And those three notorious women committed their crimes in consort with men.

Again, you’re chatting nonsense. You’re trying to create an argument that simply by daring to mention that I have been abused by a woman. I am minimising male violence. I’m not. You don’t need to be so insecure in your arguement- Is there not enough male violence- do you actually need to hide female violence in order to make your point? Of course not.

Furthermore, what does "anti-male sentiment" even matter in the face of what men inflict on women anyway?

As Margaret Atwood said "men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them".

Yes, I had that thought today too after reading about Rebecca Cheptegei. It is hard to shake off.

So we are now blaming women for not raising men correctly?

What about the men raising them? Why are men being excused yet again?

@SerafinasGoose

That's not what I heard. This was not a case of some random dude or Aunt Lydia coming along with stupid cries of 'Myra Hindlay!' and the such like This was a victim of female sexual assault, a crime which is hidden, I imagine has its own particular shame attached to it, and which didn't even used to be believed happened ( I remember a conference where the speaker on sexual violence claimed that female perpetrators did not exist). This is the context of that poster's post. It has a whole history behind it, which explains the reaction. I heard her talking of the pain of her experience being overlooked, made invisible, and even denied.

I am fine with my stance that your posts to her have been revolting.

But why didn't those 3 or 5 report it ?

'Not all men' is always bandied around...

But we never know which men, and it's always men.

@Puttingupscaffolds they wouldn't report other men - they'd rather a woman suffered.
They should be prosecuted too.