About boyfriend visiting a quaker house?

[Celia24]

We've been together for a year. When we met and religion came up I told him I was atheist and asked his views he said he was agnostic but didn't actively believe or practice.

Last week, the topic came up again casually and he suggested he was spiritual although didn't fully commit to saying he believed in God. He also said he didn't really agree with atheism as it was too severe.

Then while in London this week he visited a quaker house in an amazing building he came across! He joked he didn't know they even still existed and mentioned 'you'd have no need for one as an atheist'.

I'll be honest, he has never told me if he was religious in any way and I feel a bit annoyed by this. I want to have children and I don't want to raise them in a faith because that isnt my belief though I respect others.

Yeah, I appreciate this. Life is long.

The Irish side of my family had a very bad experience with the church which also colours my view.

I need to talk to my partner and find out where he is with this, exploring etc

Agree with this.

I'm not Christian and I visit lots of religious buildings, because they may be beautiful, or peaceful, or historical or just because. MIL was a Quaker and from what I know about them and how she used to conduct her life I only have positive associations with Quakerism.

ETA- I meant to quote a post way upthread by a poster who is a Quaker. But I can't find it now.

It's good that he's showing an intelligent interest in something. Maybe he has an enquiring mind.

Your intolerance about even a mild bit of curiosity on his part is the problem here. I think you have quite extreme views which likely would be an issue if your attends any primary school in U.K. which will all have people of faith, ocassional trips to places of worship and learning what others believe. You don’t have to raise your children to have any faith but being so intolerant isn’t the norm even for people who don’t practice any faith.

You both sound very young. You've only been together a year, you are still finding things out about each other. Likes and beliefs develop over time. There's no need to be 'angry that he hasn't discussed faith with you before. Nor does it mean he has kept things from you. He may be now developing an interest in a faith. He equally may not. You have very strong views and seem unwilling to bend them, which is fine. As it seems he is the same. But with different views. In a relationship you need to be able to support each other in your interests and be respectful of views. If you can't the kindest thing is to find someone more suitable. I for example, would not want to be in a relationship with someone with far right views. That would never mesh with me and therefore that's my deal breaker. Religion is one for you. I would actually suggest up have some time single and get some therapy to work out what you want, and also what you may do if you meet someone you like who does develop a faith, as many many people do, particularly as life goes on and horrible things happen.

Which is exactly what your boyfriend did?

So are you atheist and controlling, or atheist and a hypocrite?

Cathedrals are packed - with tourists! Then they go to a cafe or pub, it's not either or

You sound extremely difficult and I don’t think this is about religion at all.

You’re either the type to like a bit of drama and you want him to give you some attention or you just don’t like him that much and you’re finding excuses to end it.

Either way, this obviously isn’t going to last and so perhaps the sensible thing would be to end it sooner rather than later.

He already told you he was agnostic and spiritual - so you knew there was a big change he believed in God.

I’m not sure why you would be in a relationship with someone agnostic of being an atheist was so important to you and your future kids.

You sound quite closed minded.
Lots of couples don’t share the same faith.
It’s only an issue when one or both are very religious.
Many people believe in a God or think they believe in some sort of higher power but it doesn’t dictate their lives.

I think raising kids as atheists is very narrow minded.
Surely you would want them to make their own minds up about their faith and not just do what you say?

This is obviously a big issue for you and so you just need to end it and look for people who are atheists and not agnostic (although you can’t guarantee that they’ll always be atheists).

I’m not religious in the slightest. I’d love to be but absolutely cannot make myself believe in god 😂 I bloody love a church/temple/meeting place etc. They are often beautiful, peaceful, or sometimes full of joy.

I don’t think it’s particularly unusual to be non-religious and still enjoy places of worship.

YABU. You sound very closed minded. He visited a religious building, and it’s his decision about his beliefs. You can’t stop your kids exploring different beliefs and faiths. I wouldn’t be having kids with your boyfriend, he deserves kids with someone who is more open minded and tolerant

If having any sort of faith in anything is a red line for you, end the relationship. But be honest with anyone else you meet- that a condition of your relationship is that they are not free to explore their spiritual identity at all.
I'd never be able to be in a relationship with someone who made me feel I was forbidden from exploring something that was interesting/may become interesting to me.

Visiting a Quaker building does not equate to being a regular church goer or being a remotely worshipper.

You are having a shit fit over a comment which bears no relationships to this as a possibility. It's a totally disproportionate response.

You clearly can't have an adult conversation over the matter with him. But from your responses which are militant, I'm not sure you could have a reasonable conversation about it with anyone.

This is going to severely limit your dating pool and your chances of developing a relationship to the point that children are a realistic option. You need to communicate with a partner better and you need to be less judgemental and don't jump to conclusions putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with Jesus.

So I don't think you are really at much risk of raising your nonexistent kids as god-fearing religious fundamentalists of any denomination.

Also, you can agree not to raise your children in a faith, but I don't think you can force them to be atheists anymore than you can force this on your partner, OP. Any future children can choose for themselves, as can your partner.

Yes, I came on to say my DC attended a Quaker school. We are not Quakers, and neither were the majority of families who sent their children.

The Quaker belief that everyone is good at something, and they saw it as their mission to draw it out in each child and encourage it, together with their ethos of service to others, all seemed eminently suitable for a school environment.

I don't think people understand what I mean about raising kids. I wouldn't raise them AS atheists.

Atheism is the absence of belief, so that would mean not raising them with a faith. That's all.

Because he would never have said 'you have no need for one as an atheist' if he wasn't entering due to some spiritual reason.

He might very well have been entering for a spiritual reason. One can be spiritual without being religious. That statement makes it sound like you object to him having a spiritual life now, not merely religious. Which is possibly why you got a flippant, throw-away comment back.

You anre about him being dismissive of your atheism. He may equally be worried about you being a colonialist of the mind.

Either way, I’m not convinced you’re a good fit. Plenty of atheists out there who’d probably suit you far better.

He's only visited a meeting house, nothing more. It doesn't necessarily mean anything significant. Even if it did mean he was exploring his beliefs then to me that's not a bad thing - it's called being open minded. But if it's a deal-breaker to you, then you'll have to end the relationship.

By the way, agnosticism isn't a religion you believe in or practice! It refers to the idea that we can't know or not know the existence of a god.

Even if you bring any potential children up as atheists there is no guarantee they’ll remain so. My parents were atheists and I have a strong faith for example. I am not my parents, we are very very different people. I have always been spiritual from a very young age and my parents respected that.

Be very careful about this as you could end up ruining your relationship with them if you don’t allow them to be who they want to be. The world is full of parents with fractured relationships with their children because they didn’t make the same life choices that their parents did and their parents disapprove as a result.

I will look into the quaker beliefs as a matter of interest and thanks for the links so far.

I'm really not as close minded as people think. It seems ive given that impression myself but it isnt the case although I do admit to having issues with religion.

You've both gone on the defence. Try and meet in the middle otherwise you'll be fighting a miserable corner you don't even want to be in.

If you do have kids, then I have to say you are giving them an excellent way to rebel here.

It will be your children's choice if they have a faith once they are old enough to understand the concepts around it, not your choice. Not every child born to parents with a faith will continue to practice it, and vice versa. They will visit churches and other places of worship with schools, for weddings and christenings and funerals.

You may marry/have children with an atheist and something may change and they become religious.

You cannot control your partners faith and you cannot control your older children's, you can only control your own.

Why not raise them as atheists if that is your view?
And before you have them, find another atheist to be the dad
But remember, lots of good schools are faith based, so....

I agree.

We recently moved in together and have been squabbling more when we never did before. It's upsetting and doesn't benefit either of us.

I agree. I wouldn't be a Quaker but it is an honourable religious belief IMHO. And he only visited a house. You sound very intolerant and narrow minded.