About boyfriend visiting a quaker house?

[Celia24]

We've been together for a year. When we met and religion came up I told him I was atheist and asked his views he said he was agnostic but didn't actively believe or practice.

Last week, the topic came up again casually and he suggested he was spiritual although didn't fully commit to saying he believed in God. He also said he didn't really agree with atheism as it was too severe.

Then while in London this week he visited a quaker house in an amazing building he came across! He joked he didn't know they even still existed and mentioned 'you'd have no need for one as an atheist'.

I'll be honest, he has never told me if he was religious in any way and I feel a bit annoyed by this. I want to have children and I don't want to raise them in a faith because that isnt my belief though I respect others.

It's interesting that your atheist beliefs are part of your family and personal identity going back generations. That is unusual I think and it perhaps suggests it's more fundamental to who you are and how you see others than for other people, like a belief system in it's self. I think you need to find someone who feels the same as you or has the same family background who understands this being your identity.

Because you are acting like an extremist with no nuance and it smacks of its own form of bigotry and zealotry. Just because there isn't a god involved doesn't mean you aren't taking your beliefs to a point where it's unpleasant and potentially questionable in terms of judgement.

It looks just like any religious to me tbh.

It's hardly a moderate position.

Have a look at Quaker history. They have done amazing work over the centuries without expecting anyone to 'convert'. If religion and faith are likely to be important to you when bringing up a family though you need to be honest with each other.

Because most people with faith might take their kids to church but won't disown them or forbid them from going their own way as they get older. They allow space to grow into their own person.

Controlling is telling another person that they can't choose for themselves.

Fwiw I don't think he was snarky either, I thinknit was an off the cuff comment that you see as a challenge.

Seems like you’re being a bit inconsistent- you’re annoyed he visited a religious building and worried it means he might want to raise any future children in a religious faith, but you’re also annoyed that he suggested you wouldn’t be interested in visiting religious building. That doesn’t seem sneery to me, it just seems like an accurate comment. (FWIW I think non religious people can gain all sorts of benefits from religious buildings- you don’t need to believe in God to benefit from beauty and peace- but it sounds as if you don’t think that because you’ve leapt from “visiting a building” to “indoctrinating children”).

Anyway, if you want a guaranteed 100% unquestioning atheist, maybe this one’s not for you.

Read this- don’t just skim over- and identify what is in it that you object to
https://www.quaker.org.uk/faith/our-faith/quakers-and-god

Easier said than done. I havent met such a person so far!

My great grandmother lost her faith when her brother died in WWI. That was then passed on to the family, so now 4 generations.

The other side is Irish Catholic and very off-puttingly staunch.

I do see that being staunch in general is not the best way.

Thanks @HoppityBun I will read it

I think you’re overthinking it slightly. By chance, he visited a beautiful building, and just made a casual comment.

You sound weirdly militant about this. Its perfectly reasonable for your partner to have different beliefs to you, as long as you're respectful and open minded, which it sounds like, where this is concerned, may not be the case.

You say you don't want your future children brought up around religion - unless you're planning on home schooling you may have a problem there unless you're going to refuse permission to take part in nativities, church visits etc?

This.

The ultra defensive responses of the OP don't make me think the bf was snide. It makes me think the OP is particularly over sensitive to anyone even setting foot in a religious building or expressing anything vaguely spiritual.

To be this upset in the context of Quakers is particularly odd given how a certain percentage of Quakers do not believe in god at all and this makes Quakerism different for pretty much any other religion.

I agree with this. I think the OP is being unreasonable.

I had nativities and occasional church visits.

I mean I wouldn't want to take them to church or Sunday mass etc.

The thing with faith is it isn't fixed - even an atheist could change their mind so whoever you meet could do so throughout your relationship.

Same as health and ability- any person you form a relationship is only human and could become chronically ill or disabled through illness, condition or accident.

These are 2 very non fixed elements for any human that you go for as a partner.

Maybe you could research the Society of Friends? (Quakerism). You may be surprised.

Yes, so do I.

I have visited churches, cathedrals, synagogues, Buddhist temples. Because they are interesting and peaceful.

He didn't criticise you - he just stated you wouldn't be interested as you're an atheist. You being an atheist is clearly very important to you so I can see why he said it.
I hope you realise that any kids you have might grow up to be agnostic or even religious - not because of him but because people have their own ideas. My friend grew up in a fiercely atheist household but chose religion. You can't control what others believe.

Absolutely. What would you do if your children developed a faith as adults for example? You get to choose your own beliefs but you dont get to dictate or punish other people's - that absolutely is controlling.

Entirely normal. I'm really conflicted about my grandchildren being presented with religion / bible / god as being a matter of fact by their other grandparents. As a 'trusted' authority, they should understand that children believe what they tell them. They're just thoughtless and rigid. 7 and 8 year old just don't have the analytical skills to weigh up any 'evidence'.

Honestly I think you misinterpreted his comment as 'snark' - he hadn't known the Quakers still existed, and as you're an atheist there would be no reason for you to either.

Your boyfriend visiting a Quaker meeting house sounds like it was just as an interesting historical building, and you're making too much of it. Fwiw, humanist and atheists quite often have their meetings in Quaker premises!

DH and I are both atheists, we tried to bring our daughter up knowing how to think, not what to think - I reckon dogmatically saying you'd raise a child as an atheist isn't a lot better than raising it in a particular religion.

Maybe you need to talk to your boyfriend more about this, and also think a bit more about your own worldview if your atheism is in some ways 'passed down the family' rather than being a position you've rationally arrived at yourself?

People can change their views on religion and spirituality throughout life. I don't know why you are so concerned. Do you mean you wouldn't stay together if he became part of a religion? If it is an issue- he suddenly is part if a religion and can't accept you being an atheist, or you can't accept him being religious, you'll have to split up then.
I know a number of couples who live happily with that situation or are of mixed religions.
Quakerism is very different to some religions- much less ritualistic and showy.

I wouldn’t date someone who didn’t know Quaker Houses existed. I’m an atheist, and I don’t date stoopid 😉

Your children should and will have the right to decide what they believe or don't.
You can't control that and trying to do so could badly affect you relationship with them. You can;t control other people's thoughts.

Yes, and I think it helps to understand people with a wide range of cultural beliefs and practices.

Even if he does find a religion doesn’t mean he will try and convert you or that your children will be raised in a certain way. I know multiple couples where one is religious and the other isn’t, it hasn’t necessarily impacted their children. It certainly didn’t for my Catholic grandmother and atheist grandfather.

He may be exploring things and you can either choose to support him or not, but if this is a deal breaker for you, and it kind of sounds like it is, maybe it’s time for you to reconsider your relationship. Faith is a personal thing and whilst I don’t believe in any religion I certainly wouldn’t try and prevent or dissuade anyone else from exploring it.