About boyfriend visiting a quaker house?

[Celia24]

We've been together for a year. When we met and religion came up I told him I was atheist and asked his views he said he was agnostic but didn't actively believe or practice.

Last week, the topic came up again casually and he suggested he was spiritual although didn't fully commit to saying he believed in God. He also said he didn't really agree with atheism as it was too severe.

Then while in London this week he visited a quaker house in an amazing building he came across! He joked he didn't know they even still existed and mentioned 'you'd have no need for one as an atheist'.

I'll be honest, he has never told me if he was religious in any way and I feel a bit annoyed by this. I want to have children and I don't want to raise them in a faith because that isnt my belief though I respect others.

I don’t see where he expressed an opinion on atheists?

I grew up in a very devout Catholic family, attended Catholic schools between 4 and 18, love religious art and church architecture — and I’m an atheist. My son wasn’t baptised and attends a secular school.

But he already told you he was agnostic, so I’m not sure why you’re surprised?

I'm an atheist and I still like visiting churches/places of worship and will even go to a service or similar sometimes.

They are often beautiful and peaceful and have had a lot of time and attention put into them.

I do know what you mean in that I would struggle in a relationship with someone who really properly believes in a god rather than being sort of culturally religious.

I think if you have kids you have to accept that they may end up different from you but it's fair enough to not want them actively raised within a faith. But that's different from them not being allowed to explore faith.

No @thesecondmrswogan

I just wouldnt want them brought up with it, following it themselves later is beside the point

What? I’m agnostic, married to a catholic and have visited the Vatican, Temple Mount, the Mohammed Ali Mosque, the church of the holy sepulchre and no end of Bhuddist temples, all accompanied by my catholic husband. They are interesting buildings/places, that’s all, none of them have changed my opinion. Why on earth would you think your boyfriend would suddenly gain a particular faith because he visited a building?

That does sound dismissive.
It sounds as if he thinks his doubt is somehow better than your certainty.

I think you’re being really odd about this. Would you feel like this if he went to look round York Minster?

Maybe read up about the Society of Friends. They are the most undogmatic and open-minded religious denomination you will find.

Their buildings are called Meeting Houses not Quaker Houses. You can call them Quaker Meeting Houses if you want. There is a reason they chose that name and not the word church.

You sound both immature and controlling. Most people in the U.K. are still nominally Christian. It means they partake in cultural events without thinking about faith deeply or daily.

He's said he's agnostic, people develop and change all the time. If you can only be with an atheist then find one(who might also change) . I don't think he's being untruthful, I imagine some agnostics are pretty interested and searching. If you don't trust him not to become radically religious and indoctrinate your future children then he's not for you , or you for him.

Because he would never have said 'you have no need for one as an atheist' if he wasn't entering due to some spiritual reason.

Even though he had never entered one in his life before yesterday. It seemed like an excuse to be critical of my lack of faith.

The only person I know who is very religious as an adult was brought up without any faith as a child. Be careful what you wish for.

I think many people assume that spirituality and religion are tied together when that's not really the case but the only way you can work out if you are totally different pages about this is to talk to him.

Perhaps he has beliefs that would make raising children together a deal breaker for you or he may not but you won't know if you do not talk to him.

It quite fashionable to be vocally atheist these days and I think it stops people being open minded about spirituality, the quakers are very interesting in that regard.

I don't agree. I'm an atheist , I've been in churches to look round.
I might say the same to my partner (also an atheist).
Not sarcastic.
If / when you decide to have children with him then you'd have the faith conversation surely?

@Doingmybest12 it's not that I don't trust him, it's that it has never been discussed because I didn't think it necessary to.

I know plenty of agnostics who will probably never move beyond that. I think he is newly.searching in some way

You say you wouldn’t want future children to have a faith and that isn’t actually your decision. Of course you can bring them up anyway you want but ultimately it is up to them.

We are not a religious household however at one point my child expressed an interest in religion and I did my best to support them in exploring that.

I’m an atheist too it doesn’t mean I don’t like religious buildings, some of the architecture is stunning. I’m fascinated by the history of religion too. I remember being quite young and backpacking through Egypt. My tiny mind was blown by the idea that in this predominantly Muslim country was Moses’ burning bush and it was in a Greek orthodox monastery.

I think the issue is more he was snarky with you.

I do also consider myself quite a spiritual person but by that I mean a feeling of connection to nature, meditation, mindfulness. It’s important to look after your mental health as well as physical. I wouldn’t say it’s at odds with my aetheism

You can get Quakers of all stripes including atheists!! It’s a lovely concept.

You do know that people's views, beliefs and ideas can keep changing and developing as we go through life.

My husband has been into cycling, running, self development, veganism.....
My friends husband had a few years of being a devout Christian and putting all his time into the Church.

Who we are can continue to adapt, develop and change.

Part of a successful marriage is (imho); allowing each other to do this, supporting it, navigating what it means for your relationship and accepting it.

Who wants to stay the same their whole life.

This is one issue....there maybe more in the future.

Do you love him enough to navigate this? (If it is anything). If not, let him go.

Statistically, the mother is the biggest influence on inter-generational faith transmission. Kids with a strongly atheist mother are unlikely to find God.

You've known him a year and you are still getting to know him. Perhaps he feels a bit embarrassed about this developing , perhaps he just literally went to have a look. You can't rule out that anyone will change over a lifetime. Quakerism would be the least problematic for me.

Completely agree with this too. If not being atheist is a deal breaker for you then you should have searched for an atheist to date.

If being atheist was such an important factor for you, you shouldn't have picked an agnostic partner.

Couple of things.

Him being dismissive of your atheism (if that is what’s happening, and you aren’t overreacting/misreading) - not ok. It’s just not the acceptable attitude to anything in a successful relationship.

You reacting as you have to him going to a Friends’ Meeting House - also not ok. People change. If this is something that interests him/he wants to explore, that’s not for you to police. And tbh “converting” to Quakerism sounds like something that would benefit most people, it seems an incredibly gentle and inclusive group. I’m not a Quaker but I have a copy of one of their doctrines up on my wall because I find it so useful.

Children - when you plan to have children, this is the sort of conversation you have. I’m Jewish, DH is a lapsed Christian Orthodox. You have conversations to discuss whether you’re on board with circumcision/the Easter bunny/weekly services/whatever else. Not easy but part of finding your way in a relationship.

Well that's a big overreaction on uoir part if it was visiting it a tourist capacity. And also agnostic is different from atheist, even so that doesn't really mean anything regarding future children, I doubt he'll suddenly find religion. Perhaps you two should go your separate ways as it doesn't seem you are suitable, especially if that is a deal breaker.

I agree he sounds like he is newly searching for something. He's agnostic, not atheist, so he is not certain. Maybe he still doesn't believe in God but felt there was something there that he needed ( I'm agnosticxand a loosed Catholic and often feel I ' need' to sit in Church. Either way, if he does start believing in God, presumably, your relationship will end. It's better to explore these things now. In my experience, people who ' find God' are the most evangelical. Although quakers I think is the least religious denomination and have a very proud history of social reform.

@Celia24 you do understand the word agnostic don't you? Your posts read as if you think it's a form of faith ot religion.