About boyfriend visiting a quaker house?

[Celia24]

We've been together for a year. When we met and religion came up I told him I was atheist and asked his views he said he was agnostic but didn't actively believe or practice.

Last week, the topic came up again casually and he suggested he was spiritual although didn't fully commit to saying he believed in God. He also said he didn't really agree with atheism as it was too severe.

Then while in London this week he visited a quaker house in an amazing building he came across! He joked he didn't know they even still existed and mentioned 'you'd have no need for one as an atheist'.

I'll be honest, he has never told me if he was religious in any way and I feel a bit annoyed by this. I want to have children and I don't want to raise them in a faith because that isnt my belief though I respect others.

This is such a non issue. I have been to a mosque and visited a mason hall, Buddhist temples and a lot of Christian temples. I admire part of their teachings and disregard others. If he is an agnostic he shouldn’t be with an intolerant atheist. You need to respect his beliefs or lack of as much as he respects yours, and you need to extend the same courtesy to your children, you have no control on what beliefs they would acquire when growing up.

My father never allowed us to go to church, one of us is a practicing Catholic, the other one a staunch reborn Christian and I have a strong faith, as an agnostic. It was never on my father’s hands, really.

And what are you going to do if your future children find a faith of their own? And bring their children up with a faith?

i suspect that his comment about atheism being severe is because you appear to be one of those evangelical atheists.

Do you not know what agnostic means? He’s allowed to explore isn’t he? Or be interested in other belief systems?

I can't disagree with any of this. Thank you.

I felt hurt by the way he was dismissive of my atheism this week.

I at least expressed interest about the quaker house when he first told me he visited yesterday. And then got snark in return. Why bring up my atheism at all in that moment?

the main point here is I wouldn't want future children to have a faith.

Well you can't decide that. Of course you can choose weather to bring them up with one or not but they may decide for themselves to have one and that is not within your control.

If he told he was agnostic then he hasn't misled you in any way. If your atheism is so trenchant and fundamental to who you are that him exploring whether he has a faith is a deal-breaker then you know what you need to do.

A massive overreaction here from a throwaway comment.

I am an atheist but more importantly I am liberal and tolerant and took my children to the christingle service at church when they wanted to go. Your children's values (and your partner's for that matter) are much more important than which religion they choose to follow if any.

Not the point of this thread, but I now want to be a Quaker!

Faith is difficult to define as is the need for it. Maybe he's feeling that something is missing.

He needs to accept your lack of belief however, nothing changes just because he thinks he's found it. Acceptance is a two way street..

I agree. If he feels something is missing I'd rather he discussed it with me more clearly.

Sounds like a joke, perhaps because you are so staunchly atheist (to the extent of sounding like it’s a religion ironically). He’s more open minded and accepts he doesn’t know if there is a god/spiritual element to life. Quakers are fine and not at all like other organised religions, but even CoE is less so these days, they welcome everyone, can be very liberal and spiritual.

Accept your children for who they choose to be. Don’t force your beliefs on them. They are as human and individual as any other person, they don’t belong to you.

Weird to be so touchy about your atheism. It's almost like it's a faith that you can't cope with having criticised or joked about. If you're going off him for whatever reason that's fine, but I wouldn't extrapolate this comment and visiting a meeting house (nice sanctuaries in busy cities) as a reason not to have kids with someone if all else was great. Maybe it's not.

In a relationship there are compromises to be had if your views don’t exactly align, so maybe you should re-think this relationship and find someone who calls themselves atheist too.

In life people can also change their views - maybe they are religious and attend worship every week and then they pull away from their faith, and then there are those who may be atheist and develop an interest in a faith and may convert/start attending worship etc.

If you have no tolerance for a partner’s view to change their views on religion, have no ability to consider compromising on how any future DC are brought up in regards to religion, then you need to consider how controlling and one-track-minded you sound. Perhaps go and find a staunch atheist partner and hope like hell he doesn’t ever change his mind.

Btw I would probably say I’m agnostic, like to visit places of worship on my travels, attended Anglican and Catholic schools and I never ‘caught’ religion from any of them.

You sound very closed minded. It’s your children’s decision whether they have a faith or not.

I am an atheist. I was raised by atheists going back to my great grandparents, unusually. Him being critical of me made me feel he isn't being kind or tolerant about my upbringing.

That doesn't mean I am closed off completely to the idea something is out there. I don't have all the answers even though I don't believe in God.

Quaker is like the most mild thing ever.

You can break up with him.

But you need to understand that people change as they age. The man you marry today will be different to the man you are married to in 10, 20, 30+ years. And he should have space in the relationship to do that. Just like you have the right to end things.

Sounds to me like he is exploring something. What's important is his behaviour: he isn't pushing it on you. You can't expect any more or less.

It sometimes takes a year to find out that you are not well suited for sharing children and spending a life time together.

He seems hugely open minded.
You have strong feelings to want to control your children's spirituality... which is a bit spooky.

The need to hold firm to your own beliefs for yourself is not unreasonable but the need to control the belief system of your spouse and children could be hard for your boyfriend to accept.

Good to talk about it before it's too late.

You sound quite rigid tbh. A year in and you're clear about a plan to have kids and dogmatic about what would rule someone out of that. You don't seem to appreciate his spirit of enquiry. As PPs have said, religious sites are interesting places to visit and his casually learning about other faiths and their histories should not be perceived as a threat. He's just engaging with the world.

My 5yo is very interested in religion now: she's being brought up without one but she knows that her grandparents and some of her friends have faiths that are important to them. She asks a lot of questions and I do my best to answer them. Tbh I'm glad she's curious. I can't control whether she one day finds religion of her own but I can teach her to regard others' respectfully. It's part of the rich world she lives in. Would you be willing to do the same one day?

OP if you think he's being snide and you are being this dramatic over not wanting to raise a child with anyone vaguely religious, this relationship isn't for you and you should end it immediately. God forbid (sic) you should talk to him like an adult and use communication skills to resolve this as that would just be silly.

I recommend putting on your OLD profile that you only date atheists just so there's no danger of there being a problem and you mention it on the first date. Lay down your ground rules and what is acceptable behaviour and what is not from the very beginning.

More seriously, I recommend you research Quakers and what they believe and don't believe as well. As well as taking a long hard think about just how close minded you are and whether you are being realistic in terms of finding a partner if you can't have an adult conversation with your partner on beliefs. If it's not religion it will be another belief that causes conflict if your automatic response is to go nuts over the slightest hint that it's in any way spiritual.

Jeez just ask him if he might be interested in starting to explore his spiritual side instead of inventing some story about how he’s deliberately misled you and intends to baptize your future children into the Catholic Church behind your back or whatever it is you think he’s leading up to.

It's normal for atheists to not want to raise their children a faith, in the same way it is normal for someone of a faith to raise their kids with that faith.

How come my method is controlling and the other not?

@Celia24
I would consider myself atheist too. (An open minded one).

You know that we may be wrong don't you?

(Although, I don't think we are).

Remove the supernatural or obsesive element, and religion provides a pretty sound basis for behaviour. Quakers seem to be rather good at this BTW.

Yes, I know it's possible.

I think people here are giving me a hard time and thinking me to be more close minded than I actually am.

You sound quite harsh and judgemental. Maby people describe themselves as agnostic. I see it as them saying they don't really follow any religion but keep an open mind.
What's the problem with this exactly? He has a curiosity in faith but is not actively religious. It's not like he's forcing Christianity (or any other religion) down your throat.

How come my method is controlling and the other not?

It's not, but if this is really important to you then wouldnt it be best to find someone who aligns with your beliefs? Rather than someone who doesnt and then get annoyed that they are exploring that side

Maybe he was a bit snarky because he feels dismissed by you? You don’t really have any more right to impose your views on children than he does. If it’s really important to you to have kids with someone whose (lack of) religious beliefs align completely with yours he may not be the person for you.

Im an atheist, married to an agnostic, brought up by a Catholic mother, whose kids went to a Quaker school, with weekly visits to Meeting House. I take the view that it’s helpful for them to hear lots of different points of view regarding beliefs and then make up their own minds.

Not the point of the thread, but I’ve found the Quaker ethos to be an excellent basis for an education, and life in general.