To not like how my parents are being used?

[NeedSomeAnswersPlease]

I'm going to try to keep this vague but on point.

I'm one of four children. Two of us don't have our own children, two do. My parents are retired and elderly.

The two of us without children live at home, we're "adult children" - both working but unable to afford rent or a mortgage.

My siblings will, very often, expect my parents to care for the children. There's one who's school age and three who are toddlers.

My parents frequently get overwhelmed. Every winter, we're sick from September to April because of the bugs that are brought into the house from nursery and school. My parents have spent a lot of time in hospital in the last three years because they've got sick. I miss at least a week of work each year because the bugs are just this awful.

The kids' behaviour is, to not put too fine a point on it, fucking horrendous. Tantrums, they hit each other, swearing, lots of tantrums from all of them. My parents feel they can't discipline them as their approaches as parents is very different to the children's parents.

They're expected to pay for all food and snacks and any activities they take the children to. They're comfortable but it still doesn't feel fair to me.

If my parents book a holiday, my siblings will be extremely angry because they're losing childcare. My parents are looked at as a crèche, not grandparents. We don't see my nieces and nephews unless it's to look after them. The only time I get to spend time with them is if I book a day off work to help out with childcare - but I don't have unlimited annual leave and it's often very short notice that they're expected to have more than one child at once.

It's getting to the point that my parents are totally overwhelmed, but if they try and step back they won't see their grandchildren. I hate seeing them like this because they're always just exhausted, but I have a full time job.

They get bossed around and if they try to say no, get told that my siblings have already spent money for nursery etc and so my parents need to suck it up. I'm totally fed up but have no idea what to do to help them, because if anything is said it'll cause a family fallout!

I’m not sure why people are derailing with the issue of you being at home at 25 given it’s very common and your older siblings were also at home so they don’t have a leg to stand on! That said, there has to be some balance. Your parents aren’t that old but obviously if their health is poor, that can be difficult at any age. I think you’re being a tad OTT about the germs and it sounds like you’re very unlucky for an otherwise healthy 25 year old.
Germs and bugs aside, caring for small children is hard work. I totally understand you’re worried and care for them but they’re adults and need to stand up for themselves or accept the consequences and that includes pre preparing meals if they’re too tired after childcare - it’s so unfair to put the burden and the worry on to you.

I think all you can do is keep on telling your parents that it's ok to say no to your siblings if they can't cope.

For what it's worth I think the comparisons between older people taking on childcare duties that they can't cope with and having functional adult children living in the home are batshit. That is just posters having a dig for the sake of having a dig.

I think that’s fair.

YANBU to be unhappy about the way your siblings are treating your parents, but if your parents refuse to say anything to their other adult children about it, your options are:

• you raise the issue with your siblings (which I'm sure you already have)
• you continue to encourage your parents to set whatever ground rules they feel are reasonable (e.g. look after 1 grandchild at a time; only provide care 1 day a week; if parents expect the kids to be taken to classes, they give your parents money to cover the cost etc)
• you remain silent and suck it up
• you move out

While some people may have had a pop at you about living at home, I think you have misunderstood others who have simply pointed out that you can't control other people or their actions, all you can control is your response/actions, and if things don't change and they're distressing you that much, your option is to move out.

Ultimately, I suspect nothing will change, because your parents don't sound like they're the type to rock the boat. Whilst your siblings are behaving badly, it is your parents choice to allow themselves to be treated like this.

I think it’s quite blind of you to see that you are getting help off your parents ( and yes it does inconvenience them too) and that your siblings are equally getting help , albeit in a different format.
you mentioned they are key workers , do they have a shift type working patterns or something else that means regular childcare doesn’t always work for them.
your parents are fully capable of advocating for themselves so I would leave them to it ( if they really don’t want to help with childcare that is)

If your DPs aren't prepared to discuss this directly with your siblings, nothing will change.

SIL is involved a lot in childcare for her 2 DGC, says to me that she finds it too much, I agree with her and say she should cut back, then next time we see them ( we live a few hours away so don't meet regularly) she's still doing it. If I say anything to her DS as I am sorely tempted to, I would be the bad guy, so I stay out of it.

I think all you can do is a) when your DPs start complaining say every single time, you need to discuss that with Dsibling and b) don't pick up the slack or get involved- although that might be implicitly expected because you live at home.

I think it’s quite blind of you to see that you are getting help off your parents ( and yes it does inconvenience them too) and that your siblings are equally getting help , albeit in a different format.

Those siblings had the same help as her though (living at home) for five years longer than her, AND house deposits, and now the childcare. So OP has certainly not had the same level of help.
I suspect OP is also a more considerate adult housemate. She's said in a previous post how much she does at home and the brother doesn't seem to give a stuff whether the parents live or die beyond how it affects his childcare arrangements.

The OP didn't need your (and the rest of those determined to derail the thread with pointless sniping) opinion on whether she should be living at home as a young adult. Her thread was about the toll her sibling's children are taking on her elderly parents' health. Frankly, it doesn't matter to the substance of the thread whether she is living at home or 400 miles away.

In fact, for her parents it's better for her to be at home as at least they are being looked after after a day spent with their feral and uncontrollable grandchildren.

@NeedSomeAnswersPlease - you can't solve this. Your parents have to say no to their elder children's demands. If they don't want to do this to their faces they can ask you to do it for them. But they will have to stay strong and ignore the PA bullshit and whinging that will follow. In fact, your parents should tell them, then go on a lovely month long winter cruise. They need to prioritise their health and wellbeing.

Good luck OP. Please start ignoring those who are trying to derail your thread. The more you rise to it, the more they get off on it.

On what planet is the OP living at home "equally getting help" from her parents as her siblings dumping their badly behaved children on them? Unless the OP is conducting herself like that 24 year old who follows his mum around she isn't making her parents ill and stressed out just by living in the same house.

Some.posters are mean and batshit. MN was ever thus.

The siblings do not sound like they care at all.

OP please suggest a rota your parents are comfortable with.

Your living arrangement sounds fine to me, and I have 3 kids. Your siblings uncaring and entitled usage or their parents is unreasonable.

The problem with this thread is that it is derailing, and that is happening because some things in OPs account don't add up. Now, I'm not suggesting OP is dishonest, rather that her understanding of the situation isn't clear. If OPs DPs were as unhappy as she believes, they would not be doing what they are doing. I suspect it is her DPs fault that she thinks this, they've given her to believe as she does. Some people do things and enjoy moaning about it. They enjoy what they do and enjoy martyrdom too.

She has a DP problem. Not a DSib problem. Not a DNiece/Nephew problem. Not a living arrangement problem.

Is it same? Letting adults children live in uour house, who pay you for it, who are capable of cooking their own food, not verbally or physically fighting with another person versus letting kids run riots in their home. Do these small kids also cook their own food, clean after themselves and then sit quietly in their room like OP? If not, then totally understandable why old parents are tired of looking after grandkids but not tiring of having OP and sibling living in their house.

I don’t agree with the posters who are berating OP for still living at home at 25. I do think that she is overstepping if she gets herself involved in the situation between her parents and her siblings. It’s up to the parents to negotiate what they are prepared to do. Anything OP says is unlikely to help. It’s unfair if the parents involve her but all she can say is that they need to decide what they are prepared to offer and communicate that.

This exactly.

It's perfectly fine for OP to live with her DPs in her 20s. It's fine for her DPs to provide childcare to her DSib's children.

It is unreasonable of OP's DPs to moan at her about a thing they freely choose to do.

It is unreasonable for OP to think living with her DPs entitles her to control their relationship with other family members.

Lot of posters are feeling defensive as they see their parents nothing more than care for their children. I doubt they have time to talk to their parents or know how they are doing.

Some become more selfish after having kids as they cannot think beyond interest of their kids and stop seeing own parents like humans with own needs.

Parents are old and tired, and want vacation. Is that OK for them to go on the vacation or cancel it because grandkids need to be looked after.

I think this is it, they can't see beyond their own children. "Why does X have three fish fingers and Y have four", as if they'd ever let them starve. That kind of thing, it's very much a competition now

That's for them to decide. Not OP or OP's siblings or PP on Mumsnet. For them to decide.

Nobody can stop them booking and going on holiday. If they don't, it's because they don't really want to.

OP has been pushing the "feel" of the conversation, but there are a few facts that make some of the advice unhelpful.

1. Time. Parents do 2-3 days per week NOW for 2 kids at a time. All this commentary about going down to 1 day, it is already 1 day per sibling plus this unspecified time on a third day. This may well be too much for the GPs regardless, but saying to drop to 1 day is unhelpful as that would likely still be too much.
2. Extent of effort has been exaggerated and trying to emphasise duration of help entirely misses the point of effort increasing due to number of kids; kids are 1-3 and 7. Only one child, the 7yo, was even around during covid. We can assume some maternity leave and school for the 7yo, so they only reached 3 kids this year and 4 during holidays VERY recently. Raising to siblings that the number of kids now is an issue would be best; GPs might well be able to take the 3yo and 7yo after school nursery and school to still help out OR take the 2 littlest ones, but can't manage all of them at once.
3. Swearing / bad behaviour; there is only one 7yo and that child will be at school. Yes GPs should have consequences for that one kid, but 1/2/3yos should absolutely not be put in separate rooms with no toys, which is what OP states should happen based on her own childhood. Toddlers need gentle steering, isolation would be highly damaging at that age.
4. Illness should just be a different topic in the health section. If GPs see the kids anytime then they could get sick. The kids are described as causing 3 years of illness due to numberof childcare settings, which started with at MOST one 4yo and a baby. We all had some colds from DS at school, everyone does, but it was not 3 years worth. GPs both sides in our families have helped a fair bit at various stages with some DNs and had some colds only. This is just poor immunity where they need to reassess things like getting vaccines, good vitamins etc.
5. Adults at home is irrelevant. Both are out all day, but one works night shifts, and both are hugely affected by the kids being looked after 2 days per week - this bit gets confusing so it's best ignored. OP makes all the food and cleans everything - I don't doubt OP is helpful enough at home, but laying it on too thick like this is probably what's making people get a bit wound up. It's fairly common for adults in their 20s to be at home, our street has that plus a few returnees who are well into 30s after failed relationships. Wherever they live and however they live, OP and her brother can have an opinion on whether childcare is too much for their parents, I left home young but I'm really confused why people think their accommodation affects having an opinion.

This is exactly what my uncle did to my grandparents. Since the time, I have been in senses, I saw them waiting for crumbs of attention he gave them, and in that hope they did everything the way he wanted. He took most of their inheritance, he organised for the will becaue as the oldest male child it was his birth right. Sadly such horrible people exists and get away with it all.

That’s up to them to decide. No one else.

How can you be so sure that they don't want to. Maybe you have only dealt with straight forward situations in life to conclude that.

But OP said they wanted to but selfish siblings got upset and parents are too afraid to displease the selfish children. I have seen this scenario in my grandparents house, so I believe that sometimes people are not able to simply say no.

But they can't because the selfish son won't let them.

Have you really never met anyone who is a bit of a pushover, or a people pleaser, or who does things they don’t want to do just to make others happy? It’s not as simple as saying ‘if they didn’t want to look after the grandkids then they wouldn’t’. There are lots of reasons why the OP’s parents would feel unable to say no to their children - the OP has explicitly given one; that they would likely no longer see the grandkids, or see them rarely, if they were to stop the arrangement. There may be guilt issues from when the adult kids were young or as I said, a whole host of possible reasons…OP has every right to feel protective of her parents when she can see they are struggling.