To be so fucking angry. How many more women and children must die?

[Kianai]

I'd almost become numb to it, with all the news so far this year.

Murder after murder of women and their children. Noone ever seeming to link the common denominator. NAMALT.

This latest one today, I feel like something is beginning to snap inside me. Three babies and a young woman dead, because of a fucking man. Again. And again.

news.sky.com/story/police-launch-murder-investigation-after-woman-and-three-children-die-in-house-fire-in-bradford-13200678

You provided no such evidence for your prior claim. That is false. Please do post the quotes from multiple people personally attacking this woman, and provide evidence they were "feminist section regulars." I'm sorry, but you just can't go around making wild accusations like that. It's dishonest and unfair. If you are a person of honour you either back your shit up or you retract it. You don't dance around trying to avoid it, making passive aggressive swipes at anyone who questions your claims. You're closing in on a Godwin award with this Holocaust crap, because likely next you'll be comparing me to Hitler to avoid backing up your statement. Get a clue- these manipulative tactics are not working.

So, I was actually going to go through and post some of the snarky quotes but I can't be arsed. I doubt you'll actually acknowledge their validity anyway.

In summary, OP was told she was 'incoherent', was told to google the abbreviation ODFOD (basically "fuck off and die"), repeatedly called a man, and again told to 'fuck off' (this was later deleted but is still pretty obvious as OP's response is "fuck off to where?".

But don't take my word for it. Here are some replies from other posters...

'What am I missing, which is causing people to be rude to this OP? I can't see anything exceptionable. I appreciate her point'.

'I went to bed after reading and commenting on a decent post - at last a woman of colour is not berating me for being white and feminist! I thought the OP was absolutely fine. And I wake up to all this vitriol.'

'I didn't find it incoherent. I thought it was an interesting read from another perspective. I am quite disappointed by the snarky responses.'

'I don't understand why people are reacting badly to the OP. It makes sense to me (as a white, middle class feminist). Like it or not there is a historic problem of woc feeling like white feminists don't understand their problems.'

'Magnificent, your rant seems perfectly reasonable to me. I really don't know why some posters have reacted the way they have.'

'I get you OP - no idea why you’re being snarked at...'

'Maybe I'm really naive but I believe a woman wrote it. Confused I genuinely don't understand what was so objectionable about what she said either.'

'I can't believe one of them told you to fuck off! Utterly ridiculous response. And all this "well if I'm NOT ALLOWED to save you from wearing a hijab you can forget about my support! Can't get ANYTHING RIGHT!" stuff would be hilarious, if it weren't so depressing.'

'I don't see what has caused AssignedPurrfect to decide the poster is a man.'

'What exactly is your problem? What have you taken such great offense to?'

'I didn't find the op incoherent. And I didn't find it offensive either - genuinely surprised some posters did.'

'Jesus Maloney! What’s with some of the responses?!'

'I don’t understand why people are accusing you of being a man OP.'

'I understand why people are touchy, but the OP read just fine to me.'

'I would just like to add to the voices above who said they appreciate your post. I would understand if you've been put off by the response you've received, but personally I hope you stick around as I would like to read a lot more from you and a lot less from posters such as...'

' OP I'm also a bit confused about some of the responses here. I have found your rant really refreshing.'

That's just from the first three pages of the thread but I think it proves my point.

Later in the thread, the feminist Jennifer James herself chips in - some of you may remember her as the feminist who brought a court case against the Labour Party for shortlisting men for women's posts. Many on here donated to her petition.

She says...

'When a new poster, a black woman, is being abused, mocked, insulted, questioned about her own existence... and people are defending the abusers? jesus fucking christ what is wrong with you people?'

'Us white girls need to check our privilege. Don't ever pretend you don't see colour. If you don't see colour you don't see racism. Time people on here started listening to black women. If you find it uncomfortable when your white privilege is pointed out to you? Good. You should.'

' When OP said 'let's talk about white feminism' I think she was asking for a discussion, not a demonstration....'

So, you've accused me of making 'wild accusations' and claimed 'you cannot support your accusations because it didn't happen'.

So what do you make of the many direct quotes I've posted from the linked thread? Are all those posters lying?

Funny that they can all see the vitriol being aimed at the OP yet you can't? 🤔

Nope, that dodge is not going to work, wots.
I see criticism there. Of course. That's not what you alleged. I see one personal attacker, possibly more, because of deletions it's hard to say.
I see zero evidence any attacker was a "feminist section regular."

Don't waste my time with more evasion. Since you can't prove your allegation, the decent thing to do would be to admit you have no idea if any of those posters were regulars of any "section." Or don't, because it's your character that takes the hit. Up to you.

Lol, so now you try and nitpick and move the goalposts. The three worst offenders were indeed forum regulars. I've argued with them multiple times on topics similar to this. Most of the posters disagreeing with them I didn't recognise.

However, without linking dozens of previous threads they've posted on it's kinda hard to prove. But anybody who's been here a few years will recognise them.

You asked for evidence of 'multiple people attacking the OP' and I've provided ample evidence. Are you going to keep avoiding acknowledging this?

Why take my word for it. Look what the respected feminist Jennifer James says on the matter. In the very same thread.

'Mumsnet has a problem with those five or six members here who are so very rude and unwelcoming to new posters. And it seems to always be the same people.'

'Pro tip for everyone: if you ever want to find out who the abusive posters are on any forum, the ones who think they're top dog and have the right to police everyone else....just complain about the abuse without naming them. They know who they are. watch them defend it. one. at. a. time.'

That is a lie, wots. I was clear about what I was asking of you.
You've only established what I acknowledged right off the bat, that there were personal attacks from one person. I do not know if there were others which were deleted. You have not proven there were. Instead, you posted people's reactions, which is a joke.
Good of you to finally admit you can't prove your claim though.

OK, this is the last time I engage with you as frankly I've provided more than enough evidence to back up my claims.

You'll no doubt keep denying it but I'm pretty confident that most other readers will recognise the validity of the excerpts I've posted.

You denied that people attacked the OP. Knowing that you'd attempt to discredit any of my claims, I posted loads of comments from impartial posters. Comments that were made long before this argument between you and I. Comments that clearly state that people were attacking the OP.

You ignored these and doubled down on the assertion that they weren't made by forum regulars, so I posted several quotes from an independent poster stating that they were. A feminist highly respected on here and holding much more credibility than either of us.

I'm out. I'd suggest you stop embarrassing yourself lol.

As a mere observer, I would have thought that quotes from said "forum regulars" criticising the OP would have been a more logical, and more convincing, demonstration of your point. What do I know, though?

ODFOD does not mean fuck off and die, dear me. That is an outright lie.

The acronym stands for: Oh do fuck off, dear.

I have never been leered at as a child by a woman.
I have never been sexually assaulted as a child by a woman.
I have never been raped as a child by a woman.
I have never been raped as an adult by a woman.
I have never been beaten black and blue in my own home by a woman.
It wasn't a woman strangling me in my sleep.
So yes, if it's all the same to you I will continue to have concern about men in women's spaces and will probably never trust another man again.
Things will not change until men that are not committing offences against women and children rise up to support us against those that are.

You denied that people attacked the OP.

Absolutely false. A simple scroll back proves this. I stated that I saw one attacker (the person who said "fuck off" etc.) but was unsure who else you were talking about, because you were not specific. You have refused to give either the names or the content of the alleged attacks.

You ignored these and doubled down on the assertion that they weren't made by forum regulars

Also false. Made no such assertion. Only asked for evidence. I have no idea who you're talking about, because you have not named anyone. How you can fail to grasp that is beyond me. If you had just named attackers and provided the content of attacks we wouldn't be arguing about this nonsense. Yet you haven't. What else is one to conclude but that it didn't happen the way you say?

so I posted several quotes from an independent poster stating that they were. A feminist highly respected on here and holding much more credibility than either of us.

You can't really use somebody else's opinion to back up a claim of fact. The poster you refer to did not state there were multiple attacks nor name any attackers, anyway. She seemed to be reacting to the singular "fuck off" poster. Your standard for objective evidence is.... interesting, wots.

Perhaps it is best that you should disengage. You've obviously lost your composure, complete with fake loling, which has the sound of desperation to it. Why so defensive? It's really not that deep. I just wanted to know if there were nasty regulars on the feminist threads so I could avoid them. All you had to do was name them, but you couldn't. I can only conclude that is because the allegation about multiple "feminist section" attackers is a self-serving exaggeration.

You've said you were leaving the thread before, but came back to post the same tired whataboutery, so perhaps you can understand that it's hard for me to buy that you'll stop.
Given that you are so upset, do you wish me to stop responding to you? If so, then of course I will be happy to comply.

I wondered what s/he was talking about with that one. I'm very familiar with FOAD, but ODFOD is fairly new to me. FOAD seems not to be used much on MN.

Abusive men do seem to love to strangle/choke us. It's symbolic of shutting us up so we can't speak the truth about them.

How long until the but not all men comments start.

The "not all men" comments might be useful if you could order certified non-violent ones.

But some women know that their male family members would never harm a woman.

And another horrific case: Olympic marathon runner Rebecca Cheptegei ‘set on fire by boyfriend’ (thetimes.com)

I just read an article about the trial in France of the man who recruited over 50 men online to rape his wife whilst she was heavily sedated. I really wish I hadn’t. His poor daughter (also abused) collapsed in court. There are 50 men due to be sentenced but at least another 70 men the police have been unable to bring to trial.

120 men raped/abused this woman. I do wish the “women are just as bad as men” brigade would just fuck off and take the NAMALT handmaidens along with them.

Yes not all men but far too many. Either directly complicit or willing to stand by and watch it happen.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13808747/mother-tragedy-boys-dead-father-murder-suicide-depressed.html

Here we go again. Another family annihilator.

A link from the article above...

Nanny imprisoned and forced to perform sex acts before her death - as female 'pimp' posted TikToks dancing with victim

Police arrested her employer, Camila da Silva, in connection to the death on Wednesday, saying Martins may have been beaten and tortured.

The young woman was hired a year ago to take care of da Silva's daughter.

'She was lured into a life of partying and drinking, but then Camila started forcing her to stay there,' Civil Police Chief Marília Campello said, according to the Brazilian news outlet G1. 'She wouldn't let her go out, even though she wanted to and she was sexually exploited.'

'She said she would call the drug traffickers to break Geovana's leg, threatening to make it "happen,"' Campello said.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13797847/nanny-imprisoned-forced-perform-sex-acts-death-female-pimp-posted-tiktok-dancing-victim.html?ico=related-replace

40% of traffickers are apparently female nowadays according to recent statistics.

I wonder what group of people creates the market for trafficked women and children? …

And the NAMALT has started up again.