To be so fucking angry. How many more women and children must die?

[Kianai]

I'd almost become numb to it, with all the news so far this year.

Murder after murder of women and their children. Noone ever seeming to link the common denominator. NAMALT.

This latest one today, I feel like something is beginning to snap inside me. Three babies and a young woman dead, because of a fucking man. Again. And again.

news.sky.com/story/police-launch-murder-investigation-after-woman-and-three-children-die-in-house-fire-in-bradford-13200678

Yes I know we don’t have complete control, I never said we did.
I disagree that it was just circumstances lining up for me to get away- it wasn’t dumb luck or Jesus or fate- I did what I had control over and it happened to be enough.

Yes I know I am not better than you, never said or even hinted I was think that.

The reason I got upset was the hostile tone and nasty comments about and to me.

The way others communicated was dismissive, belittling, and included abusive swearing at me. How about their tone?

Saying ‘Are you fucking serious?” Tell me how their tone was better than mine? Tell me how that kind of communication is less upsetting?

One said that surviving attempted murder & rape and was “irrelevant” and then proceeded to post several posts about attempted sexual assault and murder. How is that sort of communication? It says I dismiss your lived experience of attempts, but think I’m in a better position to pontificate on women like you who have experienced them.

It was disingenuous and insulting for a poster to accuse my saying that attempted rapes and murders exist as saying “are you saying women let men…”
How was their tone then?

If you’re right and the way others communicate was so better, then expect more swearing and aggressiveness from me because that is the type of communicator you are defending.

pleas confirm you are not directing that to me. That is an incredibly hurtful thing to say, if it was.

You don't think this:

'You do have some control over whether said sicko can suceed in raping and murdering you. Reference: attempted rape and attempted murder cases.'

is an incredibly hurtful thing to say?

Because it is a breathtakingly crass and awful thing to say.

It’s my lived experience.
How can saying what I survived be hurtful?!
It is the truth.
And I was saying it in the context of the analogy of how we drive cars and can’t control what other drivers do.

Much has been made of literally nothing. Just women looking for offence where none is given and lashing out at a woman who has survived some serious in her life just for saying if a sicko decides to attack you, you have some control over whether they succeed. Some control isn’t a guarantee they won’t succeed, but it just might be enough for you as it has been for me and other women. Not every attempted murder and rape succeeds, that’s why the number of dead women isn’t the best measure of violence against women.

It's the language you're using.

'You do have some control'

No. You did. That's great, I'm glad for you. Not everyone does or has or did.

Sugar and spice, I actually referenced you being strong and brave. You should leave the analogies well alone, comparing violence and rape to driving cars is not good, to say the least. I most certainly don't intend to upset anyone but you sound like one of the following 1) someone who wants to be congratulated/commiserated/ awarded a medal/counselled or 2) A man.

Right, and I'm sure the attack was terrifying enough. My sympathies.

The problem is that you posted it in response to my explanation of why there is a difference between fears about car accidents and fears about attacks. I was saying you have control over the way you drive, so there's is often some element of controlling the outcome. In an attack there is no such control. You were lucky when the rapist was in an unsteady position and you wisely took advantage of that opportunity.
When it comes to car accidents, staying at the speed limit, observing all traffic lights and signs, keeping a watchful eye on other drivers and not driving while impaired all reduce fatalities. But we can't rely on luck as a means of reducing assaults. Therefore women continue to fear them.

To be fair, it was not sugarandspice who came up with the dumb car analogy. It was Wotsyourexcuse. Sugar then responded to me telling him why the analogy fails.

You might have some control, with a bit of luck. But we can't consider luck control, can we. Control would be entirely about us and the decisions we make. It wouldn't rely on the attacker making a mistake because that is purely luck. Where you took control was in your response to that fortunate opportunity to escape, but without it, the result would have been different.
Do you see what I mean? The control came only after the good fortune did.

I didn’t come up with the car analogy. Are you saying that only a privileged few get to analyse an analogy that is presented? To say where it fails and where it has a bit of sense?

I guess I am now looking for an apology from those who were incredibly abusive and mean towards me.

But I can see what is happening is you are doubling down and continuing with the abusive attacks on my character and on my sex, justifying it by accusing me of coming up with an analogy that I did not come up with.

You know that I don’t want a medal and I am a woman, that whole comment was completely unnecessary and spiteful.

“Some control” means sometimes you have control and sometimes you don’t have control. What I wrote includes both cases. I don’t know how it can be read any other way especially since what I wrote is entirely reflective of reality.

Xchrome,
the analogy was stupid, and thanks for setting the record straight that it wasn’t mine, I was agreeing with you and adding on to what you said at the time. In your post you did not say “In an attack there is no such control.” you said there is no control over a sicko’s decision to attack. Which is true,

But so it’s not all doom and gloom, I was adding on that we do have some control over whether their attack succeeds or not. This is true because attempted attacks outnumber successful attacks.

“You were lucky when the rapist was in an unsteady position and you wisely took advantage of that opportunity.”

Yes luck was part of it, but where the bit of control came in that I had was my choice to use my arm to initially block the knife (getting injured in the process) and then to use my awareness to do a third corner self defence move (which I had learned and practiced) and his own momentum to push him over. I then chose to run as fast as I could instead of trying to fight him one on one.

So, it wasn’t just luck. The choices I made over what I could control also contributed to my escaping him.

Have you ever been followed at night by someone who feel is intending ann attack? And then taken precautions to lose them before they attack? Is that just luck or did your awareness of your surroundings, noticing you were being followed and then your decisions to evade him not amount to some control over the situation?

Ofc, in some attacks we have no control, but it isn’t true that in all attacks we have no control. Sometimes, we have some control. If we didn’t, then attempted murder and rape would not exist. A sicko decides and then it’s a foregone conclusion he will succeed in every attack.

Imho, we can’t rely on luck alone to escape an attack.

Sugarandspice, I certainly didn't mean to say you were not responsible for getting away. You absolutely were. I was just saying that it doesn't work for everyone, unfortunately.
I agree that luck alone is not enough. Learning self defence is very important.

I certainly have been followed by a would-be attacker and I did take steps to protect myself.
The only problem is that you don't know if the measures you take will be enough, and you know that if they aren't, you are going to be traumatized, might be killed, but even if you aren't, your life is going to be changed forever. So that's why, even if you have self defence training, being attacked is feared more than driving. A fender bender isn't going to have that effect. The majority of car accidents are minor with no serious injuries or fatalities. All sexual assaults, otoh, are major trauma.

Yes the control came after good fortune, but to my recollection, the good fortune was that I remembered all my self defence lessons in the moment and wasn’t paralysed with fear. That was the lucky bit imho. Because you never know how you are going to react until it happens.

Control would be entirely about us and the decisions we make.
Yes, and I was in control when

• I decided to use my arm to block the knife despite it getting slashed really badly as a result
• I decided to use his momentum against him as he was lunging towards me.
• I decided to side step to do the 3rd corner self defence move to push him over.
• As he was floundering on the ground, I then decided to run away as fast as I could.
• I decided to run into the woods to disappear from sight and hearing quickly rather than run along the lit concrete paths of the park. To increase my chances that by the time he got to his feet he might lose track of which way I had gone.

So as I say, some control. It’s not having total control. It’s not always having any control. It can be some control but not enough control to stop an attack. It can be no control as well.

The point is that not every failed attack fails purely due to luck.

I'm in agreement with you sugarandspice.

Thank you for recognising I did have a part in escaping.

It’s been a distressing toss and turn night, which isn’t your fault btw. It’s mine for going back over that night and questioning myself and wondering was it all luck. Did I have no control over my actions. Am I being unreasonable to insist I had some control.

I haven’t escaped every attack btw. I was sexually abused for years as a preadolescent, and I have been violently raped. So I do know first hand it doesn’t work for everyone or even every attack.

It’s just a bit of hope that if a sicko decides to attack, that it can work for some of us some of the time. That a fair number of attempts do fail, and it’s not just luck.

That’s not meant to make anyone less fearful, or feel better because attempts are traumatic on their own. It’s just the lived experience of many of us.

Oh and thank you xchrome for your kindness in talking with me this morning and taking the time to understand where I was coming from. It means a lot to me.

No apologies or doubling down from me. Your language and expression screams " I'm an American man". I'm not wasting another second on you, you can't get the point or be reasoned with.

What is "doubling down"? It seems to be a strange American expression like "could care less" and I have no idea whether "doubling down" something is expressing approval or disapproval.

Blimey can we please get back to the point of the thread?

I see that two women have been murdered in Germany by ex-partners this week and the government there has said that Something Must Be Done. Not sure what, though.

Sugar I'm really sorry. It sounds like a very frightening and difficult experience. I hope you're okay.

Doubling down usually means that after you're legitimately and deservedly criticized for something you said, you refuse to accept the validity of the criticism and insist you were in the right.

Oh sweetie. I am so sorry that happened to you.🩷

You don't have to doubt yourself. You were wise and you acted fast. Never forget that. Now I wish I hadn't said anything about luck. I apologize for the trigger and your sleepless night.

3.3% of the population was sexually assaulted in 2022. Which means 96.7% were not, darling.

People on here always say it's 1 in 4 women. Where's that statistic from? 1 in 4 is 25% not 3.3%.