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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be so fucking angry. How many more women and children must die?

778 replies

Kianai · 21/08/2024 15:40

I'd almost become numb to it, with all the news so far this year.

Murder after murder of women and their children. Noone ever seeming to link the common denominator. NAMALT.

This latest one today, I feel like something is beginning to snap inside me. Three babies and a young woman dead, because of a fucking man. Again. And again.

news.sky.com/story/police-launch-murder-investigation-after-woman-and-three-children-die-in-house-fire-in-bradford-13200678

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Allie47 · 21/08/2024 17:52

But if he's really really sorry the judge will let him off with a bit of community service.

BiscuityBoyle · 21/08/2024 17:53

That poor woman and her babies. She was only young as well. I’ll eat my hat if it isn’t a man that is arrested for it.

CharlotteRumpling · 21/08/2024 17:55

I really hope for once no one comes on to say how women in their office are bitchy and mean girls.

JanglingJack · 21/08/2024 17:58

As a child who witnessed my father trying to murder my mother in the 70s, can I ask why are YOU so angry about it @Kianai and what steps will you be taking to tackle the issue?

CoralReader · 21/08/2024 17:58

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 21/08/2024 17:52

@user30

There is nearly always a backstory with female family killers. In the case you show, the father of her children was her half brother .What sort of abuse had she endured, I wonder? Many of the women kill children with special needs whom they have been left to care for unsupported; most attempt ( and often succeed ) to kill themselves as well. Several of the survivors have been declared unfit to plead , and in given the desire of society to punish women for being ‘bad mothers’ that speaks volumes as to their mental state.

No excuse to kill whatever gender you are.

MattDamon · 21/08/2024 18:00

The woman in that photo carried out the murders with her partner (who was also her half-brother and father to all her kids).

(It's a really awful story. She was in and out of care herself as a child and obviously very vulnerable. Both of the teen boys were starting to offend at school and against their younger siblings. She was terrified they'd be put into care and experience what she had experienced, so she killed them instead. Social services actually praised her in the final report because she had tried so hard and begged authorities for help.)

NopeImnotdoingthat · 21/08/2024 18:00

I watched a workman at a nearby house yesterday launch a tonne of abuse at a female bus driver who tooted to get him to move his van because she couldn't get past. He spewed horrible stuff and was really aggressive, including calling her a stupid bitch. He was so loud I could hear every word despite being inside.

After she got through, he moved the van back to the original position. About 10 mins later a lorry had the same problem. Male driver tooted the horn, back workman appears, waves at him and shouts "Sorry mate!" Moves it without a peep.

Total misogyny. Arsehole.

Eastie77Returns · 21/08/2024 18:03

I know this will not guarantee she is not the victim of domestic abuse, but with each passing day I find myself thinking I’ll be relieved if DD is a Lesbian.

SeaStory · 21/08/2024 18:04

CoralReader · 21/08/2024 17:58

No excuse to kill whatever gender you are.

I don’t think the poster was excusing it, but pointing out the circumstances why women kill.

Many women know the reality of being in an abusive relationship, or of being the unsupported mother of SN kids. Knowing this it’s possible to have some empathy for how a woman has reached a point where this feels like her best option.

Men kill for different reasons, with little back history except flowing prose on what good, decent men they were/are, and what a shock this is. It’s no surprise that this is the case, because male behaviour is excused so often. Women, with possibly years of hell and abuse behind them, are described as evil.

And it’s sex, not gender. Let’s not muddy those waters.

ChristmasOrange · 21/08/2024 18:09

YogaForDummies · 21/08/2024 17:43

They aren't even men they are literally chimpanzees

I’d rather take my chances with the chimpanzees.

REP22 · 21/08/2024 18:12

I agree OP. It was my first thought on hearing the news at lunchtime.

The likes of Andrew Tate being idolised, mimicked and lauded by many younger lads utterly sickens me. Not just him. So many utterly mediocre men in various spheres at the moment being barely chastised for heinous things. The worse they are, or the more that is revealed, the more worshipped they seem to be. I can't understand it.

CharlieDickens · 21/08/2024 18:13

Yes, it's really upsetting. All violence regarding women is put on the back burner and ignored until there's a death. What I keep on saying to people is that it doesn't come out of nowhere and it always gets worse.

I'm going through the system at the moment as my ex sexually assaulted me a few months ago to the point my life was in danger. I've been told that since the riots there's a likelihood that there will be more delays to my case. In the meantime, he's out on bail and it's all apparently fine so long as he doesn't come near me. When I pointed out to the police that there's nothing to stop him doing the same thing to someone else, she basically said there was nothing more she could do.

Tharshe · 21/08/2024 18:26

It's so utterly vile, heartbreaking and predictable. I feel my anger growing week by week and just wish every angry woman in the country could somehow, collectively, unite and be heard. I agree with a PP, why the fuck aren't we the ones taking to the streets? Well I kind of know the answer to that - because we're scared of the violence and abuse it would trigger, or we're taking care of children, households, relatives, jobs, we're resigned to not being taken seriously, or just so damn tired. I truly hope one day it really does spill over and we are heard.

FeetupTvon · 21/08/2024 18:28

9 year old girl stabbed yesterday

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mnl93ll88o.amp

fairislecable · 21/08/2024 18:31

The following is an extract from very powerful and clear letter written by an Australian radio host Carrie Bickmore it was read out by her co host (male).
It’s worth googling to see this in full.

Bickmore then pointed out that if men were killed by terrorists or a ground of male cyclists were run down on the road in Australia, “laws would be drawn up overnight to stop it from happening again”, but she said that nothing has been done to help women in equally violent situations.
“What we are asking for is not too much. We are simply asking to have the same basic right as you. The right to live, to be safe,’” her co-star read out while holding back tears.
“‘To the men who want control, the men who can’t handle rejection, the men who think the law doesn’t apply to them, to the men who think they can intimidate, manipulate, coerce, to the men who can’t regulate their emotions, can’t act with respect, your time is up.’
“To the PM, do something. We shouldn’t have to march to draw attention to his issue. You know what the issue is. Please do something more and now.
"Governments stop building another freeway for a moment. Build a safer future for our daughters.
"This is not political, this is not a matter of opinion. The facts speaks for themselves. Every four days a woman in Australia is violently killed.’”
She then urged for increased funding for safe houses, frontline centres and support services, and pleaded for the government to listen.
“If you think women are becoming shrill, think again. If you think we are being dramatic, think again. If you think we are sensationalising the issue, think again.

"We are scared and we are asking, pleading for help. Do something and stop killing us.”
Bickmore's plea comes just days after thousands of people attended rallies across Australia over the weekend calling out the government for their lack of action when it comes to violence against women.

Omlettes · 21/08/2024 18:31

Becoming angry and cooperatively channeling it into action is the best thing that women can do.
Its about time.
We need another huge march, but one that is not coopted by cynical types as with BLM

FOJN · 21/08/2024 18:35

IttyBittyTittyCommittee · 21/08/2024 16:18

Bloody hell!!
Is this genuinely “a phrase” for this?? Never heard that before… how awful that there is now a name for this vile behaviour.
I am also in agreement with those who say that every time they hear of another murder / rape / assault immediately think ‘it’s the husband or partner’ Because it usually is..😥

Yes and the news usually claims that "family annihilators" are decent men who just "snap", whilst all the evidence shows that domestic violence usually follows a pattern of escalation.

The women and children murdered by a partner will have been put through hell before they are killed but we keep pretending these men act impulsively in a moment of intense stress.

Daleksatemyshed · 21/08/2024 18:36

@ARichtGoodDram your story takes us to the heart of the problem- even the police think it's an excusable crime if it's a DP/Ex DP. It's the "You must have liked him before, why would you want to ruin his life?". Even when a man's killed his wife and children it's because he's depressed/mentally ill/desperate when in reality an awful lot of the time he's been an abusive bastard to her but he's been a pillar of the community outside.
It's a sad and horrible fact that people teach their DC to fear strangers when sometimes the greatest danger for them lives in their home

oakleaffy · 21/08/2024 18:37

RantyMcRanterton · 21/08/2024 16:07

And yes, this is so common, there's even a phrase for it:

Family annihilator.

That awful Christopher Watts in USA was the first time I heard that term used.
That case shocked so many people- I first saw them ''as a family'' pictured in the paper, where Shannan, his wife and children were 'missing'.

I thought what a good looking family they were.

When it came out that Watts had murdered Shannan, Bella and CeCe, plus Shannan's and Watt's unborn son, Nico, I like many others was appalled.

These men are not wired right.

FOJN · 21/08/2024 18:40

If anyone reading this needs help to escape a domestic abuse situation there are organisations who can advise you.

https://www.victimsupport.org.uk/crime-info/types-crime/domestic-abuse/

Women murdered by an ex partner are nearly always stalked before hand. If you are in that situation you can get help from the National Stalking Helpline.

https://www.suzylamplugh.org/pages/category/national-stalking-helpline

BiscuityBoyle · 21/08/2024 18:42

I see a man has been arrested. Colour me surprised.

Mum and three children who died in fire named www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp9r48nzx33o

chaosmaker · 21/08/2024 18:45

It does need to be a societal change and that includes at home and parenting. How do these men come to be so dangerous? If there is no male role model then surely there needs to be somewhere where they can have access to one in some form. These men all start off somewhere!

Of course I agree that there should be no excuses and @ARichtGoodDram it is appalling that they wondered about your daughter ruining her ex's life. What did they think he'd done to hers? This along with another thread about going after men that don't pay for their children shows how much less responsibility the important stuff in life is put on men.

offyoujollywelltrot · 21/08/2024 18:45

Men are a major fucking problem. They aren't our protectors, they're predators.

CharliesAngels81 · 21/08/2024 18:51

Let's stop overreacting unfortunately this has always gone on and will always go on because Men are physically stronger.

How many murders happen per week across both genders so I wouldn't call it Misogyny.

TheAlchemy · 21/08/2024 18:55

I agree I am so so utterly exasperated by it all, and very very angry.

And yet I feel completely helpless to do anything about it.

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