SS visited today

[sotiredandconfused]

I recently had a HV come round. She appeared a little rigid and looked like she was attending a wedding but she seemed chatty and reflected back lots of positive things she was seeing. Today I had a SW unexpectantly visit and after she read out everything that the HV had raised, to say I was shocked is an understatement. Both my DH were there and the HV literally fabricated and misrepresented things she saw. The SW was lovely and stated she had no concerns and let me know I could make a complaint (I have).

So WTF! I'm still in shock. The HV asked me at the time whether I wanted another visit and I said no, and then SS turn up!

I’ve been on MN a long time and this thread had saddened me for the OP.

There was a time people could post venting about something crap they were experiencing without internet sleuths picking holes in everything and trying to find a ‘gotcha’ inconsistency in the story or complaining about not divulging every aspect.

Personally, I’m happy to suspend judgement and ignore some posts if it’s really odd. It’s not cool (AIBU or not) to accuse someone of offering their child ‘on a plate’ enabling SA and saying ‘there’s no smoke without fire’.

Well there is. Post Office scandal and a ton others like it, as evidenced on this thread alone.

If u nothing to hide you nothing to fear I would be upset if I had secret I didn't want the hv or sw knowing about but that would be it. They are there tp look after the child's health and welfare and are damned if they do and damned if they don't

I disagree. I think it's natural to be alarmed and upset if you feel you are or may be accused or suspected of something, whether you've done it or not. Feeling falsely suspected is very upsetting.

My professional background is in social work, by the way.

Going to get bollocked for quoting your post, no doubt. Your post touched a nerve and I have tried to be supportive to the OP by detailing my own experiences of both of my autistic and ADHD children going through separate and eight years apart phases of pretending to be animals. I’m now going to stick my head above the parapet further to explain that I am a single adoptive parent , twice over. My AD1(16) is violent, aggressive, verbally abusive, plus she lies constantly and steals everything she can get her hands on. Earlier this year, after I inadvertently caught her accessing extreme porn on her phone, AD1 made a false allegation of assault against me. I was arrested, detained in custody for 21 hours and interviewed under caution before the police decided no further action, after speaking to AD1. I am not an abusive parent, I have never come to the attention of SS before. My arrest trigger a S47 Child Protection investigation and my children were placed on Child Protection plans for three months before everything was deescalated to S17 Child in Need plans. Regardless of the type of plan, there has been no help forthcoming for us as a family. My AD1 is out of control and my AD2 and I are terrified of her. Following my arrest, my AD1 went to live with my mum - against my wishes and at the manipulation of SS, as I know how dangerous and volatile the situation could be. After six weeks of trying to manage AD1’s extreme and antisocial behaviours, my 80-year-old mother was diagnosed with stress-induced psychosis. It’s unlikely that my mum will ever recover her mental health. She has spent weeks talking to Jesus through her hearing aids and now she is regularly going missing and imagining that she is getting married on September 1st. The delusions are increasing. I blame SS for not respecting my wishes to have my violent AD1 accommodated and then for manipulating my elderly, housebound and extremely unwell mother into taking in my AD1, who regularly threatens to push my immobile mother down her stairs.

@WhompingWillows so sorry you had to go through that. I hope you can. Find an answer soon. Is there nowhere else your eldest can go?

I must've been lucky! Our first HV was wonderful, and a bit of a life saver. Eldest (later diagnosed with ADD) would not sleep, amongst other things. HV borrowed a colleagues book and lent it to me, with permission. It was so helpful I bought my own. Unfortunately we moved area at 6m and the next HV was not very helpful. For example, DC would headbutt their cot, or rock so so violently, the cot would travel across the room. I was worried there was a health issue. The HV response? "If it bothers you that much, bolt the cot legs to the floor". I still find that shocking.

Youngest identified as a caterpillar for years. Like you, we saw it as part of their natural play. I believe this may well be part of their neurodiversity, and they did outgrow it eventually. They wouldn't respond to their name for some of that time and would get really upset if we didn't acknowledge they were a caterpillar. At least it meant they ate lots if green leafy veg & salad (still do). Before anyone panics, I made sure their overall diet was varied, balanced and nutritious.

I often use these interests to learn more with them. Even now I can tell you all sorts of weird caterpillar facts eg they only have 6 'true' legs, and butterflies taste with their feet.

I hope things get resolved for you OP.

@WhompingWillows

Fucking hell Willows.. Literally, no words. I have worked in social care/third sector for years and sadly I have seen abuse of power and wrong damaging decisions being made.. I've become really wary of it now, especially whats happened to me, and I don't know whether I'll leave the profession all together. In my experience, the good ones leave because they see how fucked the system is, and the bad ones seem to thrive in the chaos and the control they have over peoples lives.

My son often pretends to be various animals and I recall playing being a bear in the fire guard a small child and being animals into my late childhood.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with actually getting a cage for that anymore than a Wendy house or me letting my child use cardboard boxes to cage himself into a vets. The problem would only come if te child was locking into the cage against their will (or at all, for safety).

😳 bolt the cot?

One of the thing that gripes me and I find myself having to be careful else I end up in a cognitive loop in my head is that the HV sat in my house and said lots of lovely things, eg.

What a lovely happy home
Your daughters skin is lovely, reminds me of an English rose - fair skin, fair hair
When she saw the dog crate and DD got in whilst meowing - HV laughed stating her grandkids would love that before embarking on the conversation how kids always find interest in non-toy items
Its so nice to come to a nice house
Its so nice to see a little one with all her teeth, only yesterday I saw a child of similar age with no teeth as they'd all decayed
Commenting on the array of sensory toys we had available for DD
Talking to DD about the new ‘castle’ DH had built her in the garden

The list goes on. Absolutely no indication that she had any concerns. She asked whether I wanted another visit before school and I declined. 1 week later, SW turns up. When she started to talk through the HV concerns I asked whether the HV mixed up the notes. Once the SW settled she commented how she was preparing for a very different meet considering what was written on the referral.

I remember sitting there as she read out the crap and just looking at my DH is disbelief, even saying ‘im so sorry’ when she read out the co-sleeping arrangement. I saw his face fall. But he remained present and calm. I on the other hand didn't trust anything I could say because I just couldn't understand the complete dissonance of what was happening.

I have a significant CSA history and I did remark the irony of how SS now sat in my house, a happy and safe home yet when I was growing up and I presented multiple times to GP, A and E, school etc, and not once did SS intervene. I am still very angry about this. I have done, and continue to do a lot of work in trying to put back the pieces that were obliterated in my childhood, the fact that I have had to navigate parenthood with no family support (enstrangement because of abuse/toxicity), and here SS were, with the most repulsive accusations.

Yes - for whatever reason, shit people exist. Cruel people exist. They flock and stay in places of power. They bully and intimidate people.

I honestly hope the HV loses her job (but I know that won't happen) because she is dangerous and not only made non evidenced based conclusions, she literally lied. Thought on it for a week. Wrote it down and referred.. Yeah I'm pissed.i fucking hate bullies and I will ensure what happened is investigated with the smallest of hope that another family don't have to go through what happened to my family.

When typing my comment, I was thinking of the family who had their children removed due to a referral from a doctor, because of bruising. However, that bruising was actually caused by a medical condition. But doctors don't like to get it wrong, so there was a big cover up, and it took the family years to prove the doctor was wrong. It really does happen. This family managed to get it public, despite the Family Court gagging order. I cannot remember their names, but it was all over the news some years back. It was quite the scandal at the time. It took years to get the children back because the judge claimed they'd settled with the foster family and that it would be distressing for them to return to their parents after so long!!! It was horrific.

There have been other cases. I personally know of a woman (a senior level health professional) who had her children removed (for a few months), despite the allegation (from another health professional) being wrong. It took 3 months for the mother to get the medical evidence to prove that the allegation was medically and factually wrong. She got her children back after that fortunately, but by then, her milk had dried up and could no longer breastfeed her young baby. That newborn was so distressed being ripped away from her mother for 3 months. The mother was that appalled that her fellow colleagues could cause such a thing that she left her role.

ETA sorry, the point I'm making is that it can take time to gather the medical evidence to clear the family. In the first instance, it took months to diagnose the medical condition. In the last example, it took 3 months for the tests to come back to prove that she had been telling the truth. I agree with you that they need evidence, but sometimes it takes months to get the evidence to prove the allegations wrong.

There was a HV in a team I worked in some time ago. She related that on a visit a toddler was 'causing problems' for her visit to a new baby, so she asked the mum to lock her toddler in the bathroom until the end of her visit.

Beyond unbelievable.

🤯

I’m so sorry to all those who have had bad experiences. It’s my professional experience that makes me far from confident that we should just ‘trust the process’. I’ve seen children taken into care where SS took 2+2 and made 10 and equally children left in terrifying situations, where I wasn’t listened to about really serious and ongoing abuse.

Personally I don’t have faith that it always works out for the good of the children. I also disagree with the idea bandied around on mumsnet that people should be just grateful that concerned people care enough to falsely accuse you.

By that logic the black professional man on his way to work should be thrilled that he is stopped and searched 4 times in a month making him late for work and leaving his neighbours believing he is secretly a drug dealer. But racial profiling is victimless and he should just be glad the police are trying to stop knife crime…?. Even though by harassing him they actually are taking resources away from finding actual criminals. It’s a very privileged thing to have such complete faith in the system.

You may be thinking of Dr Marietta Higgs and Dr Geoffrey Wyett, who were paediatricians in Middlesbrough in the 1980s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_child_abuse_scandal

Read up on FII cases and how many many children (especially SEN children) have been removed and their parents accused of this when they were trying to just get support - parents are accused of fabricating and it comes under potential future harm and they can be removed on the basis of that.

Ss do a lot of good but there are some areas where they don’t always get it right and casting the net wide to catch all abuse sometimes gets innocent families tangled up

I sympathise OP. When the state comes a calling uninvited, it's unnerving and when the state colludes with it's minions in institutional gas-lighting it can get really out of hand, so I'm really glad the SW was reasonable.

I've read the whole thread, and many others over the years, and the positions are always somewhat polarised between those who have been chewed up and spat out by the system, and those who are fortunate enough not to have been. Of course there is a bit of a middle ground where the state has actually provided the help it is mandated to, and despite bureaucratic bollocks more good than harm has been achieved, but due to the secrecy around child protection matters we will likely never knowexactly the scale of disasters going on and families being wrecked.

Before you go "but but but" and talk about how child abusers exist blah blah blah, be aware that there are a significant number of people going through the system who are well aware of that, and have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of knowing they are not child abusers but being expected to have their children used as carrot and stick by various professionals and be grateful for it "just in case" and to deter others.

Being accused of child abuse and having to go through the family courts is the worst kind of psychological torture imaginable if you are not guilty of what you have been accused of. The standard of "proof" is balance of probabilities not beyond reasonable doubt. Expert opinion wins the day. See where that got the Websters, Sally Clarke (may she rest in peace because that was an absolute shocker of a case), Angela Cannings etc.

And that's the thing - you may be "guilty" in the family court and permanently lose your child, but you may never be prosecuted, so you can't have a stab at proving your innocence in criminal court. That's if you can even get expert witnesses to testify in your favour, as those who challenge the orthodoxy of medical dogmas surrounding child abuse are struck off and the pool is now almost empty in the UK.

Look up metaphyseal fractures - that's a good starting point if you don't believe that the system, once in action is a juggernaut that can't be stopped.

Of course one should co-operate with people who claim to be there to support families and protect children, but the lovely naivety if "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" can soon be destroyed when professionals with power are telling you you're an abuser when you know you're not, and no amount of co-operation makes a difference.

Just accept that some people do get a very rough ride through the system, not all professionals are above preserving career and reputation at all costs, and there are some who do enjoy the power. If you haven't been there, I'm glad for you, and hope you never have to. If you have been there - solidarity.

My professional background is in social work (mainly with adults rather than children) though I now work in a different (but related) role. I think most social workers, health visitors, etc are doing a good job in difficult circumstances - few set out to make people's lives miserable!

But leaving aside issues of underfunding etc, as in any job there are people who are just not suited to the role. When I was training and doing my placements (I was a 26 year old single parent at the time) I kind of naively expected everyone would have great values, etc, and was shocked to find this was not always the case. I've worked alongside newly qualified young people who are well meaning and intelligent but lack life experience and are overly judgmental. And older staff who are cynical and inclined to see the worst in people.

I worked with a woman in her late 30s with a fairly mild learning disability, I'll call her Lisa, who was unexpectedly pregnant (result of a consensual one-off), she wanted to keep the baby but was terrified she wouldn't be allowed to. I was the first person she told and I could see how frightened she was - she couldn't stand her previous social worker and was afraid I would immediately tell her off (her words) and say she couldn't keep the baby.

Her family background wasn't great and her younger sister had had children taken into care. Cue lots of meetings during the pregnancy, and most professionals were of the view that Lisa obviously couldn't cope and the baby should be removed. A large part of the argument was based on the experience with her sister ("we gave her a chance and look what happened"). I felt this was unfair, she was an altogether different personality to her sister, and although she would need support, I felt she may well be able to cope and should be given a chance (and advised not to take parenting advice from her sister!).

We managed to get a support package in place (nightmare in itself, but that's another story) and she had the baby and coped really well. I don't know what happened in the long term as I moved away from the area, but I hope they thrived.

This was quite a long time ago , but I suppose I'm just thinking about how wrong decisions can be made based on incorrect and unfair assumptions. I could give other similar examples.

The cat reference reminds me that my DC used to do that, at 3 yo she told someone her name was Whiskers 😂
Nothing unusual about imaginative play. Gosh what a rubbish HV - I'm sure they're getting worse, it's like the higher they go the worse they get. Booted upstairs or something. A decent SW though hurrah!

You do have something to fear if they make false reports

Sometimes it’s not even intentional, I know of a parent accused of FII whose child had genuine severe allergies - she was accused of making it up to restrict her child’s social development to make them look different to get attention from them having ‘special foods’ etc. this was by the school despite the parent having given them a care plan from a consultant , epi pens prescribed by the GP and blood and skin tests had been done so mum thought it will be easy to disprove the allegations - it wasn’t. The school suddenly said they’d never been given a care plan, the gp practice manager was asked to look on notes and said couldn’t see any evidence of allergies (they had been changing systems so Not all medical info was on there ) . Mum went to the gp and said ‘right so if no allergies why are you prescribing epi pens ?’ And gave them her copies of the clinic letter. By the at point SS were heavily involved and they went back to the school - found that the care plan and prescription epinpens had been ‘put in the wrong place ‘ but were actually there . Case was closed that day. It was a series of mistakes that combined could have been damaging and that’s what can happen it’s not always an individual being difficult but a set of overworked individuals not checking things properly that all builds up to look like safeguarding concerns when it isn’t

Every single parent who had their child removed claims to be an innocent victim of social services if all these parents are to be believed then there is no need for social services at all

Please, report all this to your local NHS complaints trust also. We as society cannot allow utterly vile people to lie against normal families. It's going to turn into a Stalin era country disguised as democracy if no one takes a stand and people like Lucy Letby will be allowed to go free

Wait. Here we see not ss accusing but a nurse for g sake! That's it. A nurse. Nothing more

It's a bad practice and Wales should stop it. It's not a nurses job seeing how a child is before starting school. In England you wait until you go to school and the school has these rights and necessary resources

A child playing a cat , a reason being to try to ruin a whole family's life IS EVIL and society shouldn't put up with that