Contributions from (pensioner) MIL to household

[PaterPower]

My MIL has been living with my partner (her DD) and I for about 18 months.

When she first moved in, we set contributions at £400pm. She was still in the process of selling her property and had ongoing bills, so fair enough. She agreed at the time that her contribution would go up once the sale completed. That happened about 2 months ago.

We reminded her on Friday about the promise to up what she was paying. She’s declared that she “doesn’t agree” that she should, mainly based on my DP’s DD (her granddaughter, early 20s) paying less. We’re not charging my DSD much because she’s trying to save a deposit and she’s not on a massive salary (but does work FT).

My MIL’s £400 goes a long way. We cook for her, change her bed linen, provide support on admin tasks, take her to her (many) medical appointments, shopping trips when she wants to go out and it covers all her food, electricity, our additional heating costs etc - basically everything.

She has mobility issues and can no longer cook anything more than a microwave meal (and even that only with some help). She helps load and put the laundry on and she will help with loading and unloading the dishwasher on occasion. She’ll occasionally wipe down the kitchen tops. I don’t begrudge what she does and doesn’t do, just adding it for context.

Her regular income from various pensions is good - she’s not scraping around for money, particularly now that 99% of her monthly outgoings stopped with the sale of her property.

AIBU for asking for an increase in her payment to £600 pm?

Tell her it’s much better that the money goes to her daughter now, classed as rent so it would be tax free, rather than to be hit with high inheritance tax charge on it once she’s gone. Make it sound like you’re mitigating the tax situation rather than charging her more. That said, I can’t imagine imposing myself on my child and living in their house, at all, without wanting to make sure they had all the money I had at my disposal!

I completely agree with this. I don’t like the idea of charging but I wouldn’t agree to providing long term care, so surely OP is doing better than most of us

Well don't worry OP you'll get your hands on her cash once she's dead won't you?

Unlikely. Not a single parent or in-law parent of mine has had anything to leave after death, despite initially owning houses and having good savings. Same applied re my grandparents. I'm an inheritance-free zone, as all needed care that cost well into the hundreds of thousands.

Consequently I'm finding ways to spend on my children now, and help them out where I can. And in OP 's mother's situation I'd be seeing this as an opportunity to be generous to my child and their spouse, who've so kindly taken me in and are caring for me, feeding me and ferrying me about.

This is crazy. In inheritance tax terms your dp’s mum should be giving any of her excess income away equally to her children each month not accruing it. This avoids iht on that amount so if she gives you say £800 in rent and the rest if not used on herself split between your dp and sibling(s).

I do occasional work for a local agency who provides PAs for people who need a bit of extra assistance around the home. It might be helping with admin (incoming post, emails etc), light housework, preparing lunch, taking to appointments etc., taking them shopping or just companionship. My hourly rate is £15. I don't know what they charge the client.

If you stepped back and suggested she buy-in the level of support she wants, then I guess she would be looking at around 6 - 8 hours a week to cover all your additional running around to support her? I would get paid around £100 for that, so the cost to the client would be more.

Realised I missed that she gets a PIP payment, think you can’t get that and attendance allowance. I definitely think it’s fair to increase the amount being charged, really not an easy situation taking on all that

A partners not the same as an elderly relative who has moved in as they can't live alone, so why make the comparison? And its not just splitting bills, people are talking about charging her the same as a care home or charging her for tasks they do for her. And the Council tax won't increase.

From what you’ve said she is currently living with you because she was not managing alone. She needs to pay a fair share or find somewhere else to live, paying for the care she needs from her own funds. Your step-daughter’s arrangement is none of her business. You need to (with DP agreement) take a firm stand, reasonable timescale to move out if that’s her choice. Frankly she could live for decades calling the shots and festering bad feeling could definitely grow.

"MIL was sleeping for most of the day because of her poor lifestyle prior to moving in.Yet the OP sees her as a handy source of income rather than as her partner's loved mother."

Comments like this are so unfair. They welcomed her into their home and for more than 18 months have been taking such good care of her that her health has improved and her mind is sharper than before.

As to admin... the admin involved in selling a long term home and downsizing to move into to smaller accommodation must have been considerable. The OP and family have made a sacrifice of space, time and effort to help an elderly relative.

They've looked after her now for over 18 months, because she couldn't cope on her own and agreed how much bills and expenses would be upfront. They kindly accepted a reduced rate whilst the house sale went through for all this period and now are asking for a fair contribution to household bills and expenses, which is being refused because GD is paying less.

I don't think the OP needs to be pilloried or be accused of wanting to profit from MIL when they've taken on the increased costs for the past 18 months without complaint and the MIL is very well able to pay her way. The OP and partner are also being generous to their DD in her first not that well paid job, to help her save for her own independence - they should be allowed to make that choice without justifying it to anyone else. They are not seeking a profit, but a reimbursement of costs.

I wasn't suggesting the council tax will increase in this case (it won't, that's obvious). I was using it as an example of the inequality when one adult only pays for the actual increase in a bill. Why should MIL only pay for usage rather than contributing to the bills proportionately, as you'd expect a partner to do?

This. I'm astonished at the mercenary nature of the OP. This is his/ her partner's mum, not some stranger they've taken in from the streets. That and the name 'PaterPower' is sending up red flags for me.

As PP's have said, it's treating the care of elderly family members as a source of income. Shocking.

And yet she cannot cope without carers, that much is obvious.

You say this to virtue signal, oh yes, we get what a great person you are, you would just die for everybody (not) - but could you actually afford to support an elderly adult full time in your home (in the case of the OP, out of the goodness of your heart, since it’s not your relative)? Knowing they have savings they won’t spend? Having them pay less than it costs you to support them and knowing that their savings would later be cut massively by taxes if they have to go to a care home or by inheritance tax? And that in their right mind, of course they would want their savings to go to their children? What the hell else were they saving for?

Sorry, me again, but I am so baffled by some of these posts - saying basically you have to bankrupt yourselves by not daring to tell the mother that she is costing more than she claims - this is insane. No, you shouldn’t have to care for her for free. No, she can’t escape awkward conversations about money - she has lived a long life, has more experience of awkward conversations than you (and I) and I doubt this will be new to her! If you are saying she has Alzheimer’s then she shouldn’t be in control of her money anyway - otherwise, what exactly is stopping her from giving it to her family who need it, in return for the very good care she is getting? Does she have a plan to move abroad and buy a villa or something that she can’t let go of?

With the level of care they are giving, helping with everyday tasks which she is unable to carry out for herself, MIL should be entitled to Attendance Allowance which means her DD (who presumably is the main carer) should be entitled to Carer's Allowance.

It's an entitlement, not charity.

The impression I got is that MIL has always had to be very frugal, and now frugality has become a way of life. Old people do tend to worry about money and if it will be enough, even when they have a lot of it. I know my mum does.

I can afford to support my mum though, so maybe that's the difference.

Attendance Allowance: Lower rate - £72.65
Carer's Allowance: £81.90

By my reckoning that's £152.55 per week
(I could be wrong!)

Because she's a vulnerable elderly adult and I don't see why they should financially benefit from her decling health and old age. Like I said, work out what its costing them financially for her to live there and ask for that. Perhaps you could give examples that relate to this situation, and not ones don't? "Obviously" dont?

Having a moral compass and being shocked at the lack of others is not virtue signaling, but well done for using a current buzz word.

Referring to them as not being a relative is also callus and cold, considering its their partners mother.

They also haven't said its costing them more than shes prepared to pay, only that shes paying £400 and she previously agreed to pay more.

Their moral compass has led to them taking her into their home, and looking after her. That's priceless, and most parents would want to do right by them if they had the funds - and she does!

The MIL's moral compass isn't all that accurate, though. She moved in, having agreed to a higher 'rent' once the house was sold, and had now reneged on that agreement, because her granddaughter (who doesn't have her GM's decent income and a house worth of savings) pays less.

It's interesting, though. When similar threads crop up about whether it's reasonable to charge adult DCs for living at home, the consensus is almost always that it is, if they can afford it. I wonder why we apply different principles to parents who can afford it?

FWIW I don't charge my adult DCs when they live at home for periods of time, but there isn't enough money in the world to persuade me to have my MIL live with me in my home for 18 months, I would literally move out. Perhaps it just depends on how close the relationship is in the first place…

To answer a few of the less aggressive questions…

• MIL gets PIP, and attendance allowance isn’t possible. We might be eligible for the council tax reduction and we’ve actually emailed in to enquire about that - thanks to whoever first suggested that.
• My DP had the initial and most recent conversations with her DM. Not prompted by me.
• I do most of the running around and non-personal care that’s required. It’s just that way because I wfh so I’m here during the day, when DP will usually be asleep due to night shifts.
• I don’t begrudge my MIL anything. I didn’t have to agree to her moving in, as my DP made clear at the time. Had I said no, she/we would have found sheltered accommodation for her. It would have had to be pretty ‘high touch’ because, at that point, she was not at all in a good way. Frankly I don’t think she’d have recovered the way she has in a nursing home. I think they’d have kept giving her the same drug regime and she’d have nose dived / died within months. But what would I know, eh? I’m clearly just in it for the money 🙄
• My username is pretty long standing and was originally a tongue in cheek reference to Jacob Rees Mogg and his ilk. I found it funny at the time. You don’t have to, (in fact I couldn’t give two shits what you think of it), but there’s nothing “sinister” about why I chose it.

I accept some of PP’s comments about dementia and resulting attitudes to money. We attended a few local sessions for family looking after parents with dementia. Many were looking after parents with much more advanced issues.

Neither DP nor I are naive to what may lie ahead, and that more advanced care (than we can provide at home) may become necessary. That’s, we believe, a way off though.

She gets PIP so no AA.

WIW I don't charge my adult DCs when they live at home for periods of time, but there isn't enough money in the world to persuade me to have my MIL live with me in my home for 18 months, I would literally move out. Perhaps it just depends on how close the relationship is in the first place…

I wouldn't be able to live with my MIL as she is rather a difficult woman. I only think I will be able to live with my mum as she is lovely and easygoing, has done a lot for me, DH adores her and so do the DC. We shall have to see.

I think I would be able to charge my DC easier than my mum because they are young and can earn money? Also they eat and spend a lot more! At the moment I am hoping to charge no one.