Contributions from (pensioner) MIL to household

[PaterPower]

My MIL has been living with my partner (her DD) and I for about 18 months.

When she first moved in, we set contributions at £400pm. She was still in the process of selling her property and had ongoing bills, so fair enough. She agreed at the time that her contribution would go up once the sale completed. That happened about 2 months ago.

We reminded her on Friday about the promise to up what she was paying. She’s declared that she “doesn’t agree” that she should, mainly based on my DP’s DD (her granddaughter, early 20s) paying less. We’re not charging my DSD much because she’s trying to save a deposit and she’s not on a massive salary (but does work FT).

My MIL’s £400 goes a long way. We cook for her, change her bed linen, provide support on admin tasks, take her to her (many) medical appointments, shopping trips when she wants to go out and it covers all her food, electricity, our additional heating costs etc - basically everything.

She has mobility issues and can no longer cook anything more than a microwave meal (and even that only with some help). She helps load and put the laundry on and she will help with loading and unloading the dishwasher on occasion. She’ll occasionally wipe down the kitchen tops. I don’t begrudge what she does and doesn’t do, just adding it for context.

Her regular income from various pensions is good - she’s not scraping around for money, particularly now that 99% of her monthly outgoings stopped with the sale of her property.

AIBU for asking for an increase in her payment to £600 pm?

You need me to spoon-feed you examples of other bills whereby paying only for her own usage means she's not contributing fairly to the full bill? I'd have thought you could work that out for yourself...any bills with a standing charge for a start. A partner with capacity and funds would be expected to contribute proportionately. It's reasonable for the MIL to contribute proportionately too.

There will be a lot of people on this thread looking at it from experience. I have a close family member who decimated their savings, barely slept land now lives on a basic pension after being a round the clock at home carer.
They are not benefitting from it, OP made that clear. It can be an expensive, exhausting and mentally and emotionally draining process, at times, caring for someone you love dearly while struggling to do so and feeling awful for feeling that way.
I've seen it happen so often that I wouldn't do it myself, and commend OP and her partner for doing it.

Yep, it's extraordinary that people are accusing OP of being selfish. I could never have taken my own mother in, and though my MIL was wonderful, i still couldn't have done the kind of caring that she needed.

OP is a good egg, imo.

Oh, ok.

Missed that!

Is it worth more than PIP though?

I think she should pay equal to whatever you DSD pays - regardless of saving for a deposit.
If you'd kick your MIL for not paying as much as a care home would cost, you should be charging your DSD whatever private rent would cost!

You really think the two situations are the same? Really?

And I appreciate that some PPs have suggested we push her into sheltered accommodation (probably tongue in cheek in some cases) but DP and I haven’t contemplated that, nor would we.

(Unless her medical needs change so dramatically that it would be unsafe / worse for her medically to continue living with us).

Family arrangements aren't commercial where the same services cost each person the same. They are mutually beneficial arrangements where financial benefit sits side by side with meeting each person's individual needs in accordance with their means. This would imo translate as a proportionate contribution from each person based on their income and their own needs. So an adult child with significant expenses such as saving for a deposit has greater need than an older person with only personal spending to cover, and a person with a higher income is able to contribute more to the family pot than one on a lower one.

£200 a week sounds fair ..
There's always rest homes .
My mum's rest home is £7000 a month

No I don't think it is, once you are a pensioner you can't start a claim for PIP and attendance allowance and doesn't include mobility so no claim for that and no free VED.

OP how much is it costing you to have her living with you. Take out the fixed costs like council tax and TV licence as they will be the same regardless, so food and additional heating, is that really £600 a month? I think the implications in your posts are you want to be paid above what the real costs are because you have to do things like cook a meal for 4 instead of for 3 which comes across as very petty.

If taking her to appointments is the issue then let her get hospital transport or a taxi.

It sounds like you and your partner have done an awful lot to get her in the best possible physical and mental health which is great. Google tells me PIP usually stops at state pension age so 66 for your (let's call her your) MIL. So she is still young?

What does she think her good income, savings and the funds from a house sale are for if she isn't paying her way in life? Does she think it's her daughter's 'duty' to look after her and provide everything? Does she even know her income way exceeds her expenditure? Many women who previously let a husband take care of things don't have much knowledge of their finances.

The best message would be from both daughters together or just your DP. I would with your DP draw up a costing of a house share rent (or even sheltered flat rent) plus all bills, food, cleaning, any care given at minimum wage etc. this is what it would cost her to live somewhere else. It is probably going to be £1k plus.

Then, ideally with her other daughter's support, sit her down and have her daughter not you say that you believe in looking after family and sharing what you have such as your home etc but you give so much of your time and change the way you live that £400 does not cover what you do for her. Your DP might be working more or pursuing hobbies if she wasn't caring for her mother.

The daughters should give her a financial review at the same time 'Your income is £2k and you have £200k in savings so this will not affect your life at all. You have everything you need for the rest of your life including any future care costs and Daughter1 needs to be adequately compensated for looking after you.'

If she complains jokingly ask what she needs the money for as she can't take it with her when she goes.

You should also consider that if she underpays you for the next 10 years, then has a stroke or something that requires her to move to a nursing home and all money goes on care you won't be able to say you need £30k back for her not paying her way over the last decade. Looking after her now doesn't mean there won't be a care home bill in the future that eats all her capital up.

@Choux - MIL’s in her early 70s.

You can’t make a new PIP claim after retirement age, but she’s been on it since 2013 (when whatever disability benefits were called before was changed over to PIP), due to long term conditions.

DP was going to sit down with her yesterday to discuss this again, but MIL hasn’t been so good.

If it was what was agreed then she absolutely should be paying more. She would be paying a hell of alot more to a home to do all those things for her.

Maybe have a family meeting and tell her and the daughter they have to pay £600 to help cover bills, I don't know what the daughter pays but you could either put the difference aside and give back to her to help with a deposit or tell her to leave her payment the same and not tell the mil, just depends if she is good at managing money I guess

The daughter does not require taking to appointments, personal care etc as she is living independently. The MIL does require these things so they don't need to pay the same amount.

The OP and partner could cost up the bills etc at the same rate plus a room rental element and charge the same for those which may help get the MIL to agree to paying more than £400 but she should not expect the additional care and services she receives to come for free when she is very comfortable financially.

I think that your MIL should pay more

If she is largely immobile, she is reliant on your family for everything.
This means that your freedom is restricted too. What happens if you want to go to an event in the evening ?
What happens if you want to go on holiday ?

Outside non family help costs money, at the least it would be minimum wage per hour. Most care agencies charge a fee on top of minimum wage, this includes doing simple tasks round the home, not complicated duties.

A person can claim PIP up until state pension age & continue to receive this payment, ongoing, with no age limit.

People OVER state pension age, can claim attendance allowance.
They cannot claim PIP.

PIP & attendance allowance are not means tested

I'd lie and say DD was now paying £600.

She agreed the amount would be revised once her house was sold, she's now backtracked on the agreement.

I'm assuming there is now probably a sum sitting in a savings account, accumulating interest? I also assume increasing the household budget would benefit her also e.g. occasional takeaways, home improvements, days out? Why would she rather sit on it?

I honestly hope that when I'm older, I try to share any wealth before I go, rather than giving the taxman 40% or whatever ridiculous amount it will be by then.

She pays or she does and finds a nursing home/sheltered accommodation that can meet her needs.. simple as that! She can’t expect you to pay for and provide 90% of her care but get it for free. She needs to live in the real world I’m afraid

I’ m surprised that PIP isn’t stopped at state pension age and replaced with AA, es as PIP is a higher amount! Rachel Reeves might get an idea for the budget here!

You are not paid carers, you are family and asked her to move in to help help? Family shouldn't be charging to help her and take her to appointments etc.
You can't charge her for stuff you do for her as her family.
I think £400 is more than enough.

To me this seems unfair. PIP is more than AA, and also opens up the gateway to other benefits which a person on AA doesn’t get, even though they may have the same medical conditions so it’s a two tier thing.

Yes it is two tier, qualify for PIP before SRA and you get significantly more than someone with the exact same issues which started the day they qualified for SRP. My DH is almost 80 and still getting DLA (PIP wasn't around when he became disabled) so it does seem strange. To be fair his response would be you could have his pain for the last 40 years and he'd have carried on working so I suppose that is a balance.

Ripe for Rachel Reeves to change in the budget, perhaps, along with other low hanging fruit from the pensioner tree.

We have a duty to care for our parents. Is she's able to make a small contribution them you should be satisfied with that.
Threatening to put her in a care home is disgusting behavior.
Remember what she sacrificed when caring for her daughter.
Have more compassion.