Contributions from (pensioner) MIL to household

[PaterPower]

My MIL has been living with my partner (her DD) and I for about 18 months.

When she first moved in, we set contributions at £400pm. She was still in the process of selling her property and had ongoing bills, so fair enough. She agreed at the time that her contribution would go up once the sale completed. That happened about 2 months ago.

We reminded her on Friday about the promise to up what she was paying. She’s declared that she “doesn’t agree” that she should, mainly based on my DP’s DD (her granddaughter, early 20s) paying less. We’re not charging my DSD much because she’s trying to save a deposit and she’s not on a massive salary (but does work FT).

My MIL’s £400 goes a long way. We cook for her, change her bed linen, provide support on admin tasks, take her to her (many) medical appointments, shopping trips when she wants to go out and it covers all her food, electricity, our additional heating costs etc - basically everything.

She has mobility issues and can no longer cook anything more than a microwave meal (and even that only with some help). She helps load and put the laundry on and she will help with loading and unloading the dishwasher on occasion. She’ll occasionally wipe down the kitchen tops. I don’t begrudge what she does and doesn’t do, just adding it for context.

Her regular income from various pensions is good - she’s not scraping around for money, particularly now that 99% of her monthly outgoings stopped with the sale of her property.

AIBU for asking for an increase in her payment to £600 pm?

This. Especially when the weather cools and she wants the heating on all the time

I think you need to properly itemise the costs involved with keeping her, and show her that.

I don't think you should be asking for more than what it genuinely costs to keep her - she is family, and presumably you will benefit when you inherit her cash which will not be depleted by care home fees.

If you can show her that it costs you £600 to keep her in your home, then yes she should pay that or take steps to move out.

I expect it sounds like a lot to her because, assuming that her mortgage was paid off, she was probably paying less than that for food and bills.

But her circumstances have changed and she can't live independently, so needs to accept your genuine calculation of what it costs you to have her in your home.

presumably you will benefit when you inherit her cash which will not be depleted by care home fees.

Not necessarily. The OP is not family. Family are the two sisters. I wonder what the other sister's thoughts are about this money OP is proposing to take from the estate. And what her thoughts will be at the time (which will come) when the POA she has is activated, or when her mother's care needs increase, or when her mother passes. What will she think then, about all of this "who is working, who is cooking, who is funding my house" dog in the manger talk.

OP, in your shoes I would ask her where she wants to live. No one gets a free ride I’m afraid.

You and DP need to be on the same page and present as a united front too -you can’t be the “bad guy.”

If she doesn’t want to pay more to you then she pays a lot more to someone else. That’s it in a nutshell. I think it is ultimatum time.

A lot of these responses are unrealistic in the light of the dementia dx.

It can be very hard to discern or work out how a person with dementia, even early on, perceive facts and put things together (or not) on their minds. Logic does not apply. It can affect emotional responses. Memory can be very patchy and inconsistent. Cause and effect lose the connection so an ultimatum is not really an ethical basis for forming a decision.

People getting older and frailer feel defensive. Even without dementia many older people are in denial about how much help they actually need.

There is no doubt, OP, that asking for , and needing more contribution, is not unreasonable.

Unfortunately being reasonable is often difficult for dementia sufferers.

I wonder if your DP’s sister can help? Be firm, reassure her Mum that the ££ is reasonable and that her Mum has loads of money etc, and tell her firmly that it is the right thing to do?

I think some are losing the gist of the original query. The MIL agreed to cover her costs once she was rid of her house and associated bills. Now doesn't want to so has reneged on the understanding reached when she moved in. I can understand why that leaves a bit of a bad taste given the level of care and attention and available funds which are continuing income and not from her savings. It would be different if there was no money, but the fact remains that there is and banking it into savings for HMRC to swipe later, while costing the OP's family significantly more than planned is a bit unfair.

But I do acknowledge that she's an elderly relative with dementia and this is a really tricky line to walk before you look exploitative.
I do think that expectations have been set and not met and the reality is reasonably significant financial and support overhead for the OP and his partner. So they can either suck it up or sit down with the MIL and either ask her to cover some care and support costs with an independent provider, or to make more of a contribution to her costs. Personally I'd be more inclined to look at the independent provider as it is likely she will need more care down the line, interim respite care in the meantime and the precedent is then set while she has the capacity to sign off on it.

The situation changes a little from your updates about her fiances. It sounds as though she can more than afford to contribute fairly, and is well aware of modern costs. I think the fair thing to do here is have a family meeting, involving your sil, where you break down to her exactly what she needs to be contributing to cover her costs. If your life is on hold because of her care, then she needs to be considering paid help in addition, to take the load off your dh and you.

Excuse me?! “Muscling in” is it?

a) It’s my house too - in fact, I pay the whole mortgage monthly and contribute more in general to the household budget, (as I should).
b) I’ve been with my DP longer than either of our original marriages lasted so I think I can count myself as family by now.
c) My DP originally brought up the increase to her Mum.
d) I do more of the care work (if you want to call it that - it’s just what has to happen) than my DP does, because she works nights so is not here then and sleeps for a big chunk of the day. That includes all the ferrying around to medical appointments and anything that has to happen in the day during the working week.

My MIL has a shit-ton of money she’s sitting on. She already had a lot from before the sale and is now also sitting on that. She has no outgoings, bar a mobile contract (because we pay everything else), and adds costs and a LOT of additional life admin to the household.

I don’t begrudge her her money, she’s done well to save it up. But she’s an adult consuming adult amounts of resource (and then some) and isn’t currently covering that.

As for the dementia diagnosis, she was still on a lot of medication at the time she took the tests so was very mentally foggy. Even then, she was assessed as only just on the very top of the scale for a dementia diagnosis. Since (we’ve intervened and advocated for) her changes in medication, she’s a lot sharper mentally. I don’t think she’d get the same result if she took the tests again - I think she’d ‘pass.’

This is not someone who’s on a sharp decline at all. She will, thankfully, likely be with us for many years

We’re not “making money” in this situation. At all. Not currently and not at £600 pm either.

You must REALLY hate the whole care industry if you think we’re somehow going to profit from this!

DP's mum lives alone and has the heating on full blast twelve months of the year,I'd hate to see her gas bill.

YANBU and bringing in what her granddaughter pays - shameful. She pays up or moves out. Not sure if dementia is in play here but they become fixated on money.

I’m not going to benefit from her estate and wouldn’t expect to. If my DP and I are still together then, which will hopefully be many years from now, then I may see some benefit indirectly, (just as she will if I inherit anything from my DM).

Equally, my MIL could leave it all to her DGC. Or to a cat’s home. Or spend it all on care fees. Or whatever she chooses to.

Someone mentioned her bills. I saw those (because she asked me to help her cancel the providers) and between council tax, utilities, broadband, house insurance, Sky etc (not even factoring in food) she was paying more than £600pm. And I reiterate - she’ll still be keeping over £1400pm. We’re not clearing out ‘Mrs Hubbard’s pantry’ here.

My DP’s sister is absolutely aware of all of this. She had the opportunity to intervene and didn’t, but recognised her Mum wasn’t coping. My DP talked it all through with her at the time. We had a bit more space and I wfh whereas she’s FT external to her house.

She has joint POA and my DP talks to her regularly about it all, and she talks to her Mum. She’s visited us once (to be completely fair it’s a 90 mile trip) and had her mum stay with her twice in the last 18 months.

Have a look in the elderly parents forum. These are people who have lived with, cared for, experienced most things with their elderly parents, relatives etc. They have good sound advice having been there, seen it, done it.

Although I did say £500 a month was enough, now having more knowledge of the MIL’s finances and her previous bills, I agree with OP and hope they come to an agreement about a reasonable monthly sum. £600 seems fair.

When the time comes turn the heating off and put the woolly jumpers on. Explain to her you can't afford to heat the home without more money.

If DSD is her argument I would put both their rents up. But explain to DSD that you'll be putting away the additional for her; this is simply to justify it to your MIL.

Your house, your rules 🙂

It's not just board and lodging she's paying for it's care too. Kindly explain this to her and offer to support her to find her own over 55s flat and find a care agency as an alternative.

I think that's quite enough for her to contribute.

Why does she know what DSD pays? That transaction has nothing to do with her. I’d probably sit them down together and tell them rent was going up to X for both of them, but in reality divert the extra from DSD back to her savings.

But why does she have to know what DD is paying?

I don't think you are unreasonable. Especially as her needs will increase over time.

If she won't budge on the money side of things, then you may have to reduce the things you do for her. My first thought is that all the ferrying around should stop. If she needs to get to appointments, she will have to take a taxi.

A conversation needs to take place, and I agree that you should work out what it would cost her to live independently again, with a care package.

If course you are not trying to rip her off, but this is your life, free time and good will and she needs to be paying her way.

Do not speak about what you don't understand.