My mother in law wants to decide what to keep from a baby shower/donation.

[Gennah]

Hello everyone,

So I am currently living in Japan, and I live with my husband and mother in law. (It’s common to live with family especially when the baby comes so they can help)

I am 37 weeks pregnant now, and she has insisted that I keep all baby stuff in storage and refuses to let us use an empty room for a nursery. (Saying babies don’t need their own room)

I will be receiving a package today from my husband’s cousin which has second hand baby items. I was so excited to get it, but my mother in law said she is going to look through it and decide what to keep or throw away. (She also made me throw away a ton of clothes because she said I don’t need that many when I moved in. We can’t really afford to move out at this point considering the baby, maternity and paternity leave income cuts and my husband is going to inherit this house after she passes.)

I can’t help but feel angry about this. I am a first time mother and I appreciate help, but it’s my baby… I feel like I should have a say in what my baby will need or not need.

Considering the cultural differences and my feeling of inferiority to an experienced mother in law and elder, I am wondering if I am being unreasonable or if I am valid to feel the way I do.

Thank you for reading and for your thoughts.

I don’t want to derail the thread. But my young adult son wants to go and work in Japan for a year. He does not mind what he does there. Having read this thread, I am now wondering whether this would be a dreadful idea? He has no wish to live there permanently, but I now wonder what his experience would be like and whether I should dissuade him. He has already started beginners Japanese lessons, but maybe he should not follow this dream.

Cultural relavtivism is rotten to it's core. A culture is objectively wrong that places others in the family in a position of complete authority over other adults. And I say this as someone who thinks women in the West often have a shocking level of disrespect towards their mothers-in-law. Respect for another adult doesn't include blind obedience.

It pretty much does in Japan.

Talk to the embassy in South Korea about how her MIL wants to throw out some second hand baby clothes she thinks they won’t need? 🤣 this thread is fascinating on so many levels..

Of course they matter, which is why posters with experience of the Japanese culture and knowledge about The Hague Convention are advocating an approach that does not put the OP at risk of losing her child, either by trying to return to the UK without consent or by pissing off her MIL being told to move out and being unable to find anywhere to live, because she'll be unable to rent and the child will have to stay with her DH/MIL.

We might not agree with this aspect of Japanese culture but advising the OP to take action that is not in their best interests to make a point isn't helpful.

The fact is that if you choose to marry into a different culture and live within it, it's incumbent on you to understand what that means and decide if you can/will be able to navigate the challenges this will inevitably bring.

The OP needs to pick her battles here and a fight over second hand clothes isn't one worth fighting for.

By working with MiL and integrating into the family she is far more likely to gain more influence and agency both for herself and her child.

Her husband also married into a different culture. Presumably he felt some love and respect for her and chose her above a pure-blood Japanese woman. Marrying into another culture works both ways. How about a bit of respect for the OP?

Yes he did. But they are living in Japan, with his mother.

When the OP chose to live in Japan and have a baby there she tacitly agreed (even if she didn't understand it at the time) to be bound by Japanese culture, norms and the law.

The situation would be different if they both lived in a different county, independent from MIL. That is possibly a route she may wish to discuss with her DH, but needs to be prepared for the fact that if his mother vetos such a plan, he almost certainly will follow her lead.

This isn't about respecting (or not) the OP.

It's about navigating a path through cultural complexity to achieve the best possible outcome.

The truth is her options are very limited due to the advanced state of her pregnancy and having no familial support of her own.

You can rant and continue to make ridiculous suggestions but you might want to consider what YOUR motivation is?

Giving the OP advice that is impractical and/or puts her at a significant disadvantage in this context isn't helpful.

I think you are reading what you want to read from other peoples posts. I guarantee that everybody on this thread would want the OP to have autonomy. To have her be able to assert herself and keep whatever clothes she wants and to parent her baby in the way she wishes. Nobody would want the mother-in-law to dictate to the OP.

However many people here recognise the grey areas and complications of the situation. It would be ridiculous for the OP escape on a boat. Similarly, if she antagonises the mother-in-law by asserting herself, she could end up without even a husband and then stuck in a country , which she cannot leave because her baby is there. She has no other support in Japan but no support at home either. It’s not a great choice, is it?

What people are debating is how to address the situation so that she gets the best outcome, even if it means compromise and metaphorically gritting her teeth.

You are reading people’s responses in a black-and-white way and getting all outraged . Maybe take a bit of a breath and read what people are actually saying.

If the MIL actually made a 37-weeks-pregnant woman homeless because of a difference of opinions, THAT would be the ridiculous thing. What a way to treat the mother of your future grandchild - in a country with a low birth rate desperate for the next generation! The OP mentioned taking maternity leave. She is an adult with a job. Maybe not as vulnerable as you’d like to think - not ideal brood mare material, perhaps!

As for black and white opinions….apparently Japan is a country where there is no room for any discussions between adults sharing a home. That’s pretty black and white and rigid. Maybe that is the problem here.

So what would you do?

I didn’t marry a Japanese man!

I think she should help herself to what she needs of those things sent to her. Babies do need a lot of clothes - otherwise all day every day will be spent washing.

If the MIL is unbearable she should go and book a hotel and give her so-called family time to think about what life will be like without her and her precious cargo. Maybe some compromise will be reached.

I wouldn’t just cowtow to this.

You haven’t read the thread have you?

Cool.

And what if this led to the end of the marriage? With the baby staying with her husband/mil and very few rights for herself. What about when her cash for the hotel runs out? What should she do then? Talk me through the options.

Yes, I have. I’ve read a lot of guff about there being nothing she can do. How she must stay barefoot and tethered to domesticity for 20yrs because of Japanese culture. I disagree. I doubt she is the only woman in Japan thinking that way as well.

Apparently a lot of Japanese men lose contact with their children when they get divorced. Their wives can live independently and the vast majority keep custody of their children - full custody. Japanese men don’t really seem to be big on being full-on lone dads. And of course the MIL will lose face over the divorce.

This woman has a job and must be entitled to a divorce settlement - even as a third-class citizen foreigner. Would the marriage really break down over baby clothes? If so it wasn’t much of a marriage.

I don’t think anyone is saying that, but rather pointing out the complexities of the situation OP is in. There are sensitivities, nuances and contexts here that you seem to be entirely missing. OP can’t just start throwing her weight around when she is in a position of relative dependence. Yes she has power, but she has to be careful how she is executes it or her situation could well deteriorate for the worse . Bull in a china shop comes to mind when reading your advice.

Maybe she can make herself an origami escape vessel? Subtle enough?

Have you actually read the posts from people with real life experience of Japan, marriage breakdown and the woman’s role?

From reading it I have learned that as a foreigner, it will be very difficult for the OP to get accommodation and live independently within her means. She also will not be able to leave the country with her baby. For me the latter would be a risk that I would really not want to take.

Hence, I would think very carefully before asserting myself, moving out to a hotel etc. Losing contact with my baby would be the worst thing of all.

And of course, this is not just about baby clothes. You really do not seem to be able to read between the lines and are very concrete with your interpretations.

I don’t think you are as clever, tough or funny as you think you are.

It's different for men, even foreign ones. Especially if there's a job offer with accommodation, and he steers clear of drugs, the worst that can happen to him is a few upturned noses over stepping onto some very sensitive toes. Even if he marries a japanese woman, family pressure will be far lesser for him because he'll marry a daughter (presuming that those are your sons preferences, of course).

Oh okay. Thanks for the advice. It’s terrible there is sexism even though that could work in my son’s favour. This has been a useful thread. I think he has an idealised view about Japan, as do many people. There is clearly a darker side and it has been helpful to read about it.

The persistence of some posters trying to impose UK culture on this situation is incredible. It. Will. Not. Work.

In Japan, Japanese culture and laws prevail, and frankly, rightly so. Despite what some posters seem to believe, the rest of the planet is not inferior to the UK and countries have a right to their own laws and culture.

Imagine the situation is reversed and a Japanese woman comes on here outraged that her mother in law in England is not tending to her every need for the month after the birth so that she can get 100% rest? Or complaining that her husband doesn't hand over his salary to her at the beginning of every month to manage and she gives him an allowance out of it as would be traditional in Japan? Would all those of you decrying Japanese culture support her? Of course not.

Also, the persistent referring to Japanese women as "subservient" and "submissive" is such a gross and lazy racist stereotype. Japanese women are NOT subservient at all. In Japan things work differently, but all the Japanese women I know are strong, capable women who take no nonsense BUT understand how to respect their elders and how to operate in their own culture, of course. If you marry into that culture, living in Japan and int he family, it is wise to learn from them and do the same.

In Japan they have gasp a public nursery provision from age 0 which is accessible on a points system depending on whether the parents are working full time, whether they live with a grandparent or not etc and the fees are means tested based on the previous year's income, and range from ¥10,000 to ¥70,000 per month (£50-£370). Considering that a large proportion of UK women find themselves not returning to work after childbirth due to the insane nursery fees, and that this contributes directly to the gender pay gap, are we sure that the UK is a less misogynistic society than Japan?

Posters advocating acting as if Japanese culture is meaningless and backwards and that OP should just ride roughshod over it are a) giving advice that won't work and b) not really seeing their own ignorance.
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Also, the suggestions about escaping to South Korea on a boat and going to the embassy for help are patently ridiculous. A slightly overbearing MIL does not an abusive or dangerous situation make.

Apparently a lot of Japanese men lose contact with their children when they get divorced. Their wives can live independently and the vast majority keep custody of their children - full custody. Japanese men don’t really seem to be big on being full-on lone dads. And of course the MIL will lose face over the divorce.

But they don't lose custody to a foreign woman who will find it nigh on impossible to secure suitable accommodation. Especially if the Japanese father has a mother willing to facilitate the provision of a home and childcare.

As for moving to a hotel. Great way to make her DH and MIL lose face and further limit any basis for trust and increased self agency. It's not the gotcha you think it is. She can't live in a hotel indefinitely either.

All your posts simply demonstrate you haven't thought through the consequences of your suggestions - which I reiterate are not to the OP's advantage.