My mother in law wants to decide what to keep from a baby shower/donation.

[Gennah]

Hello everyone,

So I am currently living in Japan, and I live with my husband and mother in law. (It’s common to live with family especially when the baby comes so they can help)

I am 37 weeks pregnant now, and she has insisted that I keep all baby stuff in storage and refuses to let us use an empty room for a nursery. (Saying babies don’t need their own room)

I will be receiving a package today from my husband’s cousin which has second hand baby items. I was so excited to get it, but my mother in law said she is going to look through it and decide what to keep or throw away. (She also made me throw away a ton of clothes because she said I don’t need that many when I moved in. We can’t really afford to move out at this point considering the baby, maternity and paternity leave income cuts and my husband is going to inherit this house after she passes.)

I can’t help but feel angry about this. I am a first time mother and I appreciate help, but it’s my baby… I feel like I should have a say in what my baby will need or not need.

Considering the cultural differences and my feeling of inferiority to an experienced mother in law and elder, I am wondering if I am being unreasonable or if I am valid to feel the way I do.

Thank you for reading and for your thoughts.

Are there any Japanese women around you that you can talk to about this? They can help you navigate the cultural side of things better.

In my case, I'm from the Middle East and my own mother helped me with my baby for the first 6 months. In our culture, we have to respect our elders and put up with so much because they are providing so much for us. My mum is very vocal and overbearing, she gives me non stop instructions even now. Even as I was dealing with a poo explosion, she would tell me what to do, to the point that I'd get so stressed out and yell at her to stop. She would interfere with my natural instincts and decisions, leading me to second guess myself. Everything was so much simpler when she wasn't around... but also extremely lonely and depressing. When she was around, I could handle things better, even her stressing me out what nothing compared to the horror of not knowing how to stop the baby from crying or how to get him to sleep.

I would say, that you take the good with the bad. Also, just say YES to everything with a smile and then proceed to ignore everything that is said and do things your way. Cultures like that expect so much from its members to the point that it is okay for you to just pretend you are taking everything on board. If she is unreasonable in everything that she does, then you have a right to passively resist everything she says with a smile :) That's how I survived.

The OP mentions maternity leave - so she must have a job. Why are you so very keen to completely dismiss her abilities as if she is simply a baby factory for this family? You are the abusers’ chief apologist and knock down any proposals to resolve this issue.

Never underestimate a woman’s ability to go to the ends of the earth to do the best for her child and herself. Not all lone parents are on benefits or homeless! I’m sure that’s true in Japan as well
as in the U.K. She has a job. Presumably there is not a complete colour bar preventing her from finding accommodation. She can find a way to survive on her own if life is too intolerable in this cult family.

Japanese women that would be willing to drop the perfect politeness mask and actually give you their honest opinion on your shoes, never mind how to deal with your MIL, are on par with unicorns and leprechauns. It would mean someone would lose face and there is NO greater horror in Japanese eyes. Took my XDPs sister 3 years of very close friendship to tell me how much she hated hearing me blow my nose during a flu episode, which predated my relationship with her brother.

Perfectly polite while thinking “gaijin” and treating you like a third class citizen.

So far the advocates of “cultural values” seem to have forgotten one key fact. The OP is this future child’s mother. Would the family really want the child raised by a miserable woman? Won’t they want some sort of harmony. She is in a powerful position. Imagine she did try to cut her losses and left the baby behind - because apparently that might be her only option. What a loss of face that would be! The child being raised motherless! How would the DH work? Or if the MIL was left doing all childcare is that something she has anticipated. You do have power within this oppressive system, OP. You are this child’s MOTHER! You will still be the most important person in that child’s life. It’s about time they showed YOU some goddamn respect! Or they could lose face, of course!

Sorry but the host of suggestions that op dhould basically dyck it io are dreadful. Truly medieva! You've made your bed now lie in it because it's culture
What a lot of useless spineless rubbish.
We are talking about op's future here, and that of her child. The sooner her mil realises her son did not marry a submissive Japanese wife but a gutsy western lady with a different way of doing things, the better. Shame on you!

It will get her what she wants, which is parenting her baby in the way she chooses. It just depends if she has the stomach for a vaguely uncomfortable home life until her MIL accepts that she has a horrible disrespectful DIL and adjusts her expectations. Unless the MIL will use physical force to get her way, OP saying “no” will get her what she wants, whether the MIL is happy about it or not

Sorry, but being worried about your birth rate is not a good excuse for perpetrating a culture of discrimination against people whose blood isn't pure enough and then aggressively enforcing rules which effectively stop them from leaving.

It’s not actually a surprise the birth rate is low. How about creating a family atmosphere in which a woman would want to breed??!

Once again applying western values to another culture. It’s worth reading back through the thread to look at posts from people who have actual experience of this to see how it works, because this is not it. I think OP is suffering from culture shock at the moment and she needs to weigh up the likely consequences of clashing with her Mil because she’s the one who carries the clout in Japanese culture - and they’re living in her home. I don’t think OP has much alternative but to stay and suck it up for the moment.

Didn’t say it was. Didn’t say I support it. Just saying western values have no meaning here so it’s pointless advising OP on that basis - it won’t change anything and will likely make her life very difficult.

@Rosscameasdoody
More apologism. Doormat! Giajin lives matter.

I’m not apologising for anything, and I haven’t been rude to anyone so why are you being rude and insulting to me ? Once more with feeling, I didn’t say I support it. Like several other posters with varying degrees of experience of Japanese culture (mine is minimal but I understand the basics) I’m just trying to explain the difficult situation OP is in and how it doesn’t help to advise her from a western point of view because she’s living within strong Japanese culture and tradition. They are living with MiL, OP is regarded as ‘Gaijin’ and her DH very likely won’t be willing to argue with his mother. It’s easier to try and lean into the culture and pick her way through than to try to launch a one woman crusade and be in constant confrontation with her Mil as a result.

Myself and a few other posters with actual experience of this have been posting to try to explain a bit about Japanese culture and why it’s pointless to fight against it, but in typical MN style it’s’ shoot the messenger. You can call her a gutsy western lady with a different way of doing things all you like - she very probably is. But the message here is that mounting a one woman crusade against the culture will likely make life very much more difficult - especially if her DH is submissive to his mother, which from OP’s posts he clearly is. She’s 37 weeks pregnant so can’t fly home - nothing here for her anyway - and if she leaves when the baby is born she won’t be able to take the child unless her DH agrees - again doubtful because he’s submissive to what MiL wants, and she won’t want that. So it doesn’t make sense to piss MiL off if she’s to have any hope of persuading her DH to leave with her when the baby’s born. It’s not western culture - very far from it - but it’s the prevailing culture in which she’s living. That’s the point. Sick of repeating myself to people hell bent on not wanting to understand.

I am not applying any values - OP isn't dealing with another culture, she's dealing with one family member with a different culture. Unless Japanese police are going to arrive at her door to take her off if she doesn't obey her MIL, she can decide to ignore her on matters that aren't her business. Because of the cultural difference, those around her may harshly judge her for this - that's fine. she can still do what she wants. There are many cultures around the world that have strictly enforced rules, but people still stand up to them. If your culture is that girls are circumcised, you can say "no" and refuse to circumcise your daughters. You will be judged by those who say, "this is just how it is", but you can still refuse if you are willing to deal with the fallout.

@Rosscameasdoody So there is no point ever changing anything and we must all defer to your oh so superior knowledge? As far as I can see you support a form of domestic abuse.

She absolutely is dealing with another culture - and one that reveres her MiL as an elder. Like it or not the OP is stuck there until she’s had the baby and there’s no way she can leave the country with the child unless her DH accompanies her or gives his permission for them to leave. From her posts it seems DH is submissive to his mother - that’s the part of Japanese culture OP is up against. I don’t condone any of this but I do recognise that OP has to play ball to a certain extent if she wants to take her child out of Japan. Her DH holds the cards to that, and by extension so does his mother. If it’s OP’s ultimate goal is to leave with her child it doesn’t make sense to piss either of them off.

Once again reverting to insult because the facts don’t suit your world view. I’m not supporting anything. I’m explaining - or are you just not capable of appreciating the difference ? If OP wants to leave Japan with her child, she needs her DH onside, and by extension MiL if he is submissive to her. They hold all the cards whether you approve of it or not - and for the record, I don’t.

My own experience is limited to a similar situation with my SIL who married a Japanese man. She had similar difficulties accepting the way things were done, and hated living there. Her experience was a massive culture shock she wasn’t expecting - similar to what OP is experiencing now. SiL managed to escape it when her DH got a job in the UK and they left with their two children.

From what she’s told me of the culture it bears out the detailed posts from @FluentRubyDog including the fact that, as Japan is a signatory to The Hague Convention, if OP were to try to up and leave with her baby, the UK would be forced to return the child to Japan and she would be barred from going back. She would then be unlikely to see her child again until they reached the age of 20 and could make their own decisions. So it depends on the OP’s priorities.

MIL owns the house they live in and they are staying there while waiting for their inheritance. Forcing her western values on MIL could jeopardise their home and their future financial security.

She really does have the whip hand in every sense, culturally and financially.

You are most certainly loco, and lone isn’t surprising

And as I’ve just posted upthread, probably the whip hand in the event that OP wants to leave with her baby. From her posts, it seems that her DH is submissive to his mother, so in the event that OP needed his permission to leave with the child, that permission would also extend to MiL. Western values are so different, but most people here appear to be viewing Japanese culture as ‘wrong’ when in fact it’s just different. Who are we to say what is right or wrong in another culture which has been in existence for thousands of years - we may find elements of it unpalatable, but I daresay there are plenty of elements of western civilisation that would be unacceptable to other cultures.

No one is answering me when I ask - what is going to happen if OP disobeys her MIL? The only options are not for her to obey or flee the country with the baby. She can also just refuse. It will make life uncomfortable, sure. Maybe she will be ostracised. I know I am a pretty confrontational person, but this would not bother me at all. If my MIL had invited me to live in her house because she values multigenerational living (which is different than her allowing me to live with her due to hardship on my part), she would need to adapt to having different ideas in the house that have literally nothing to do with her, like ideas on where baby should sleep or how many clothes they should have. She can go to her grave not liking it, it would just roll off my back.

I think this is an ignorant and unfair response. I have learned a lot from this thread.

Given the OP is heavily pregnant and ‘stuck’ , it’s too late to escape etc. I think posters are suggesting a more subtle and considered approach. To get the mil on side and change things gently from ‘within’. Getting better results that way rather than going in all guns blazing. If the OP gets assertive and angry now, it could all backfire. She could and up alone and even more isolated in Japan, with limited access to her child. It’s horrific.

From what I can see, people are suggesting the need to take a different approach. Finding another way to address this which takes into account how pregnant the OP is.

It is simplistic and ignorant to say anyone here is supporting abuse.

This may be, but if she isn't actually going to kick them out or disinherit them I wouldn't let it stop me. The MIL has obviously invited them to live there - she had intended first on moving out, so I don't feel like "forcing Western values on her" is in any way an issue. It isn't forcing your values on someone to tell them to butt out of your parenting. No amount of cultural pandering will make OP accepted by Japanese society as a whole, so what is the point in letting the MIL control her baby. It will not benefit her at all.

South Africa also used to have cultural differences in which a lot of people were viewed as inferior. They were wrong! It’s good to say when things are wrong.

The MIL doesn’t hold all the cards. Do they really want this child motherless or for there to be a custody battle. Surely a few compromises by the Japanese relatives would save them from a big loss of face when the marriage falls apart?

The parcel is coming from the husband’s cousin! So presumably someone Japanese had some items to dispose of.

BTW I robust debate is not rudeness.