My mother in law wants to decide what to keep from a baby shower/donation.

[Gennah]

Hello everyone,

So I am currently living in Japan, and I live with my husband and mother in law. (It’s common to live with family especially when the baby comes so they can help)

I am 37 weeks pregnant now, and she has insisted that I keep all baby stuff in storage and refuses to let us use an empty room for a nursery. (Saying babies don’t need their own room)

I will be receiving a package today from my husband’s cousin which has second hand baby items. I was so excited to get it, but my mother in law said she is going to look through it and decide what to keep or throw away. (She also made me throw away a ton of clothes because she said I don’t need that many when I moved in. We can’t really afford to move out at this point considering the baby, maternity and paternity leave income cuts and my husband is going to inherit this house after she passes.)

I can’t help but feel angry about this. I am a first time mother and I appreciate help, but it’s my baby… I feel like I should have a say in what my baby will need or not need.

Considering the cultural differences and my feeling of inferiority to an experienced mother in law and elder, I am wondering if I am being unreasonable or if I am valid to feel the way I do.

Thank you for reading and for your thoughts.

Japanese culture is complex. A few points.

1.cosleeping is normal. It is alien to most Japanese families that the baby needs "their own room" until they are about 4 or 5. I can therefore understand MIL's point of view that she is not prepared to give up a room in her house for the baby, especially if you guys may move out in the next few years. Baby doesn't need their own room because baby will stay with parents in theirs.

1. the suggestions of "standing up to MIL" are, I'm afraid, ludicrous as are the stereotypes that "Japanese people don't like arguing, it's all about saving face". Nonsense. OP is in MILs home, and will need to fall in line with MILs rules. There won't be an argument because there won't be a discussion.

3.The Japanese embassy will indeed pursue the mother if she abducts the child and leaves Japan without the father's permission, but so would any other country which is a signatory to the Hague Convention (which Japan is, since 2014). Implementation of the Hague convention in Japan when it is the Japanese parent who has abducted their Japanese citizen child back to Japan is admittedly, sporadic. Either way, suggestions that she should abduct the child back to the UK after the birth are both immoral and illegal.

1. It is absolutely true that in the month post partum the norm is that the mother is treated with kid gloves by the entire family to ensure her recovery from the birth. The "get out of hospital and get on with it" approach is not going to be how this goes. She will almost certainly, as one or two earlier posters have pointed out, be waited on hand and foot for a month.

1. Japanese culture is no better or worse than UK culture. It's different. OP lives in Japan and is integrated already into a Japanese family. If she is married she will probably be on the family Koseki Tohon of MIL, and the expectation is that MIL treats her as she would her own daughter and that OP acts like it. This, again, is not unreasonable or wrong, it's just different, and just how Japanese families work. Equally indeed as other posters have pointed out, her husband will likely hand over his salary to OP to manage each month. Pluses and minuses to every system.

In summary, I would let MIL go through the box. It's not actually particularly important. I would also accept that baby doesn't need it's own room. Deferring to MIL on these 2 small points and then talk to her (now) about things that might be important to you when baby is actually born, so that you open dialogue with her on a positive note (yes, Okasan, you were right about the baby's room and thank you for your help sorting out the package. What do you think about xyz?) about things that might matter a lot more. Work WITH the family not against them. Because working against them you will lose.

POV from someone who has a child with a Japanese man (now ex). We didn't live in Japan but I was in regular contact with his parents and have visited. They were lovely. I remember them coming to visit and I woke up at 4am because my son's grandma was sitting in my bedroom in my apartment, watching me and my son sleep because she thought it was sweet. Inches from my face 🤣. She did this every day, pretty much. But she also, aged 79, arrived at my apartment after a 20 hour journey and walked straight over and did my entire family's laundry because "I must be tired because I don't have family close".

And for a final "Japan moment" my ex has still not told his parents we have separated. It has been 6 and a half years and I have a new partner and another child. He also has a new partner. But he felt that it was "unnecessary " to upset them as they live in Japan and we in Europe and his parents don't use social media, so he opted not to mention it. Whenever he takes the kids to visit I am "at a conference for work" and have to say hi on a video call.

😬

OP my advice is to lean in. You will not win fighting against Japanese culture in Japan, living in your MILs house. If you embrace it you may find that the support you receive will make it worth it. If you love your husband and there is no abuse (which sounds like the situation here, just a minor clash with MIL) then don't opt to fight a battle you won't win.

I don't know about other countries but when I travelled to Canada to visit family with my baby DD, we were stopped by Canadian customs in Vancouver and prevented from leaving the airport because I didn't have written approval from my H to bring DD into into Canada. We were going to be sent straight back. This was years ago and I don't remember how it was resolved but I certainly learnt my lesson. 🤯

So what if it’s disrespectful? I see a lot of dire pronouncements on this thread, but what is actually going to happen if the OP is considered to be disrespectful to her mother in law? Is she going to face legal consequences? Is MIL going to throw the couple out? That wouldn’t be ideal, but OP says her husband is supportive of her but just not willing to take a hard line himself, so there’s no reason to think he’s going to divorce her if she tries to keep extra baby things and his mum overreacts. They would probably just move out. Most likely I think, is that the atmosphere in the home will be tense. I understand lots of people have a far lower tolerance for conflict, but I just wouldn’t care. It’s important to be respectful of other people’s cultures when in their country. Don’t say things that are offensive, don’t wear clothes that aren’t appropriate, don’t do things that are illegal - but how you choose to raise your baby isn’t something you need to consider other people’s feelings on.

I’m not actually even sure from reading all of OP’s statements that the house is actually the sole property of the MIL - if OP’s husband has no interest in the house, why would the MIL have entertained moving out so he could live there when there is clearly enough room for everyone?

It sounds like IF the situation is so bad that the OP NEEDS to leave she should leave Japan before the birth, then the child would be born in the UK and would not be abducted. In Japan women have the legal right to leave the country unlike, for example, Saudi Arabia. Once the OP is in the UK hopefully her husband could get a visa. I have learnt a lot about Japanese culture this evening.

I'm surprised more people aren't aware that having a child with someone of another nationality can come with a whole host of headaches re: custody and free movement. This is not just a Japan thing. Most countries will prevent a parent from moving with children without consent of the other parent.

This happens a lot in the US, Australia, Canada etc and if the parent who wants to move, e.g. back to the UK with the DC can't get permission from the other parent, they're pretty stuck.

@MO308002 oh yes, I remember that breakup well... XP took my reasoning perfectly, never anything less than a perfect gentleman. However, I was hounded to show up on Skype and begged to behave like a couple when his parents visited afterwards. I kept pointing out that he'll have to tell them before they started to go on about weddings again, but the idea he'll have to admit we were no longer together was insufferable to him. In the end his sister broke the news to them.

No airline will fly her at 37 weeks. Any boat that sails from Japan will land her in a country that will promptly turn her back to avoid offending Japan.

So a gaijin is treated like a third class citizen? What about the half-gaijin child? Equal or not?

There are a lot of assumptions that the OP would end up on benefits if she came home to the UK - a sort of assumption that she is penniless without her husband. But she mentions maternity pay and I think she has a job. She is probably not penniless and certainly not worthless - as seems to be implied but the put up and shut up brigade. She has a job, she could cope alone if needs be. She doesn’t seem happy in this marriage.

If OP leaves Japan with the child (once born) and without the H’s permission, she is the abducting parent, so the Hague Convention says that the child should be repatriated to Japan. The Japanese government will provide support to the H if he seeks to have the child repatriated, and will ban OP from returning to Japan.

Japan is however typically unwilling to enforce the Convention when the child is abducted to Japan.

If a foreign national wife with a small child separates from a Japanese husband, she may receive sole custody and child support, but may have difficulty finding work and somewhere to live.

Well, yeah, a lot of people aren't aware of that but even some people who are aware of it would most likely be shocked by what they've read in this thread.

I live in my husband's country. We have children. I have only recently become a citizen. I knew before I moved that once we had children I would not be able to go and live elsewhere without his consent unless I was willing to leave any children behind and so I had to be sure I was willing to live there for at least a couple of decades. I had a job offer and I speak the local language, and it is a European country so not too far from home. Even so I've made a huge effort to integrate and to build a life for myself which doesn't solely revolve around my husband, in case one day we do separate.

But if, in the early days of our relationship, I had known that it would be difficult or impossible for me to get a job there, or to rent my own property there, or that my life would be ruled by my mother in law, I wouldn't have moved there.

A country which won't let a foreign woman either rent her own property or earn her own income or leave the country with her children is keeping foreign women prisoner, sometimes in abusive relationships, for decades. I don't think anybody would anticipate that when deciding whether to move to what is generally considered to be a civilised first world country. On the back of this thread I've recategorised Japan as a country no woman should ever move to, along with Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Wow, behind all the immaculate wee pastries and Hello Kitty and bowing, theres some really dark shit, isn’t there?

You couldn’t take a British born child out of Britain forever without both parents’ consent either.

OP will be homeless and reliant on benefits with a child, if she does this, as she’s already stated that she has no family in the UK. And if she takes her child, the Japanese embassy will pursue her relentlessly until the child is returned. The alternative is to find common ground with MiL and learn about Japanese culture.

Homeless and benefit reliance will be of a short term duration, if the OP has any gumption.
I said take the husband with her. It's not abduction if he goes with her. He chooses wether to go back for the sake of an inheritance that might take 30+ years, or stay.
I think she has had her fill of Japanese culture - it will get worse.

No, but the UK would allow the foreign parent of that child to actually earn a living and rent or buy their own property. They wouldn't be forced to either remain in an unhappy or abusive marriage or lose their children, which is absolutely inhumane. That's the difference.

And what if her husband won't go?

I have to admit that in the OP's position my strategy at this point would be to start chipping away at my husband to convince him of the benefits for their children of living in an English speaking country for a few years and then once they were resident somewhere else refusing to ever go back.

Although I wonder whether Japan would even respect the same rules they demand are enforced in their favour if a Japanese citizen living abroad took their children to Japan for a "holiday" and refused to return them. I suspect it would be "heads Japan wins, tails the UK (or wherever) loses".

It is not true that gaijin are unable to work or rent their own property in Japan. Of course they can.

Mum cannot unilaterally decide to leave Japan with the baby of course. But that is the case for most countries, as it should be.

Kindly op, in that case you need to factor that in as part of the path you have chosen marrying into a Japanese family and moving there. Obviously they will need to make the same sorts of adjustments if you move to your home country. It’s all part of the adventure, the joy, but also the incumbrance of such an international family set up. I know a few Japanese people who are quite traditional and they are really wedded to their kind of minimalist lifestyle and how their surroundings are set up. ( No clutter! It’s almost monk-like). Perhaps you could make a list in advance of the things you feel you really need and either share it with her or have it in mind when she goes through the stuff so you know what to just let go anyway, and what might be worth asking to save.

😳😳😳

You're in a very unhappy position. I can't see matters improving for you after baby arrives. So I suppose you either become the Invisible Woman in the household, and you are well on the way. Or you start, with utmost politeness and immovable stubbonesss, asserting you self. The sooner you start, the better.
It will not be easy. It will be unpleasant and it will be difficult. But the consequences of not doing so are obvious. Your place in baby's life will be determined by Mil. For years.
So, with smiles, polite language, never losing your temper ( only on the inside) starting right now, make your boundaries clear. Ask for and accept advice when you want to. Pick less important ( to yoy) things to be compliant about.
Your husband may well be torn by this. But just as you are trying to adapt to life in Japan, he has to accept he chose to marry someone from a different culture. Make it clear to him you expect his support. Yes, you accept he is in the middle of a difficult situation, but he married you, and you see it as his duty to support you, his wife.
It's going to take courage snd nerves of steel!
Good luck!

@IamMoodyBlue It’s been said quite a few times now that advising OP from the point of view of western culture is pointless because it doesn’t mean anything in Japan. MiL rules the roost. They are living in her home, and her DH’s culture demands that he doesn’t argue with a parent. There are some very good posts upthread detailing what Japanese culture is about and how daunting it’s going to be for OP to pick her way through. But one thing’s for sure, ‘asserting herself’ will mean constant confrontation with her MiL and that’s not going to get her anywhere.

Homeless and benefit reliance will be of a short term duration

Unless they have their own means of securing housing and an income to pay for it, this statement is a joke.

There isn’t anything in Japanese law that prevents foreigners from buying or renting property. But as ‘gaijin’ she will face discrimination when renting - there are ‘gaijin houses’ but they have shared facilities and lack privacy. The cost of living is high and realistically OP will find it difficult to secure even an entry level job without a working knowledge of the language. And where the child is concerned OP would not be allowed to take them out of the country without the permission of the other parent - the same as the UK, but in Japan the culture will be against OP. DH will likely not go against his mothers’ wishes if she does not want the child to go. I don’t think it’s inhumane from their point of view- the birth rate is low and children are precious. It’s really a cautionary tale for any woman to do their homework before putting themselves in the same position as OP.

At 37 weeks no airline will fly her.

Homeless and benefit reliance will be of a short term duration

Unless they have their own means of securing housing and an income to pay for it, this statement is a joke.

Rubbish. Initial roof over their heads may not be ideal, but it will be a roof. She will be entitled to benefits in the first instance.
If he's staying, there are two of them, one at least can find a job.
OP sounds educated (don't know about DH) she should be able to improve her situation.
Yes, there are people who choose to live in the back end of nowhere and cannot find or travel to work, or for reasons of ability cannot work to improve their situation, but this does not sound like the OP.
You may find it preferable to be submissive to another woman and culture, but OP is not liking it one bit, and it will get worse. She cannot change the culture, so needs to change her home.

As tough as it is, you really can’t change an entire culture, or expect it to bend to your ways.

That would be like moving to Saudi Arabia and complaining that women still have limited access to many services, like public transport.

I don’t agree with it, but countries and cultures don’t care about what I agree with, and therefore I wouldn’t live in country with such opposing cultural views to mine.