Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to exclude my friend from a holiday because she's got a boy?

574 replies

brownmouse · 16/04/2008 12:37

regular here blah blah (we need an acronym for this )

I have a small group of 4 friends, we all have 1 child of the same age (5)

One of us has a boy

I am arranging a summer break for us all but the three of us with girls really don't want the other person coming along. The girls play nicely together while we sit around talking. The boy is loud and whacks the girls and is constantly full of energy, and is constantly knocking into us, interupting our conversation.

We'd like a summer BREAK where we sit around while the girls play. If we invite the mum-of-boy it won't be a break, it will be noisy and stressful.

Should we arrange it and exclude her, or just invite her and accept that it will just be a child-focussed holiday?

OP posts:
Greyriverside · 16/04/2008 13:28

As for discussing it on here being bad. Surely that's what this place IS.

OrangeKnickers · 16/04/2008 13:28

OK practical suggestions. How about going to place that provides childcare so the children can be someone else's problem.

Or bringing along an extra person to help with the children? Spread the cost between the lot of you.

expatinscotland · 16/04/2008 13:30

a fair point, grey.

but one that is being overlooked.

Novicecamper · 16/04/2008 13:30

It sounds like they don't want children there at all - it sounds like they want a girls weekend away and actually they can get away with that with their angelic girls because they sit quietly all day and demand no attention.

So just go without kids.

Saturn74 · 16/04/2008 13:31

"If you were going scuba diving and your kids were expert swimmers you wouldn't invite someone with a child who couldn't swim".

That analogy doesn't really work.

But just out of interest, why wouldn't you invite someone with a child who couldn't swim?

Is life really about surrounding yourself with people who are exactly the same as you?

Mine isn't.

DelGirl · 16/04/2008 13:31

I have a boisterous dd, very, and she's never been excluded from anything that i'm aware of. I bet the mum's wish they could exclude me at times though lol as I can be hard work . I'm talking about my fellow luverly good mumsnet friends btw.

MummyDoIt · 16/04/2008 13:31

I think some of you are being a little hard on the OP. She has already clarified that it's not the fact that he's a BOY and that she could have phrased it better and said CHILD instead. I'm sure she doesn't mean it to be a gender thing (and I've got two boys myself and get very defensive when people criticise male behavior).

OP - I do sympathise with you as I have a dear friend whom I love as a person but her parenting style is totally different to mine and I think her three DCs are incredibly badly-behaved. In case you think I'm being judgemental, one was excluded from school. I made a decision a year ago that I did not want my DCs to mix with hers because I didn't like their behaviour. I don't want to lose the friendship so we meet up in the evenings away from the DCs. If we were contemplating a holiday together, it would be a mums only, without any children. I think that is your solution.

VacantlyPretty · 16/04/2008 13:33

Message withdrawn

theyoungvisiter · 16/04/2008 13:35

What kind of a friend are you? Your poor friend didn't CHOOSE to have a high-energy child. She has to look after this (probably lovely) little boy every day of the year while you enjoy your (apparently perfect ?) DD. Hasn't it occurred to you that your friend may need a break as much, if not more, than you and your other mates?

What if you have another child with an equally boisterous personality or - shock horror - special needs. Will you sit happily by while your remaining two friends go out together?

Or will you be on the phone to your long-lost friend asking for tips on how to cope with a challenging child?

Shame on you.

yorkshirepudding · 16/04/2008 13:36

Message withdrawn

stuffitllama · 16/04/2008 13:36

I think the instincts are natural given the extent of the child's "energy" by the sound of it. But the truth is it probably wouldn't work out the way you say.. completely relaxing, the girls all playing nicely and not needing much attention.. for that sort of thing I think you would have to go away without any children at all.

And if you really treasure the friend, which I think you do, you won't want to hurt her feelings this way .. as is obvious by the fact that you're asking the question.

My vested interest is an energetic boy.. sometimes excluded as a toddler because of it, sometimes not. It is a bit understandable, but with good friends you really need support and not judgement, and this would feel a bit judgy if I was your mate. However much you aren't normally.

AND she will realise instantly that you've agonised over this, the three of you, behind her back, and talking about how ghastly her kid is (that's how she'll see it as mother tigress!)) and things will change between you from that moment, I think.

Unless she is a really real saintly person!

Greyriverside · 16/04/2008 13:37

HumphreyCushion. Fine. I'll go scuba diving and out of political correctness and equal rights I'll take a long a non swimmer. He'll only need a one way ticket of course so it will save money too.

marina · 16/04/2008 13:37

I agree MummyDoIt & GreyRiver.
Brownmouse acknowledged she had phrased the title and the OP badly ages ago.
Yes it's a view most of us do not agree with and many of us would not exclude this friend from the holiday.
But I think coming up with a solution that means the mum friends have time together and the joint holiday is scrapped as unworkable, is better than just all queueing up to heap vitriol on her.
And NQC made a really important point earlier about keeping the little boy involved in playdates so that he is helped to play "better" and less destructively.
That's what friends are for

stuffitllama · 16/04/2008 13:38

So in short, I think the instinct is not unreasonable, but if you treasure your friend, it ought to be overcome or got round somehow. I think people are being a bit hard on you.

hifi · 16/04/2008 13:38

i can sympathise to some extent, i have friends who have very destructive children, they dont control them and do damage wherever they go. i love seeing them but cant cope with their kids. if its a holiday and he will spoil it and the mother cant control then yanbu.

wannaBe · 16/04/2008 13:39

but no-one in their right mind believes that going on holiday with three 5 year olds is going to be quiet do they?

"The boy is loud and whacks the girls and is constantly full of energy, and is constantly knocking into us, interupting our
conversation.".

me thinks the op and her other two stuges are of the "children should be seen and not heard" variety.

I think it's entirely possible, human even, to not like other peoples' children. However when those children are the offspring of someone you consider to be a good friend then imo you have two choices:

either put up with the child for the benefit of the friendship.

or exclude the child and accept that the friendship cannot continue.

I really don't think there can be middle ground on this.

ruty · 16/04/2008 13:40

but your child will meet children who you deem 'undesirable' at school and nursery, etc. i find it odd that parents pick and choose which children are 'acceptable' for their dcs to play with.

Saturn74 · 16/04/2008 13:40

GreyRiverSide, whilst I can't really believe I'm still posting regarding the scubadiving analogy , the point is that the OP wouldn't be responsible for this child, his mother would.

And if she wanted to teach him to learn to scubadive, why couldn't they learn alongside you and your children?

expatinscotland · 16/04/2008 13:40

Better yet, Grey, take someone along who hates water.

This happens in adulthood. We were climbers and didn't ask people to come along on climbing holidays when we knew they were outdoors types/were afraid of heights, etc.

They didn't feel mistreated or excluded.

We didn't feel mistreated or excluded when friends went on gambling holidays and didn't invite us.

SmugColditz · 16/04/2008 13:40

How could you do it? There is no way to do it that won't leave her feeling cut to the bone

"Would you mind if you didn't come? We don't like your son."

Or just go without her.

It's not admirable and I wouldn't do it, it's cruel. It's cruel. I really would rather not go myself.

Greyriverside · 16/04/2008 13:41

It's supposed to be a holiday, not the rest of their lives.

TheDullWitch · 16/04/2008 13:41

Oh this particular kind of mother of a precious only girl, threading beads and colouring in. Ugh.

theyoungvisiter · 16/04/2008 13:42

Marina I think that is a fair point, but the point is that she is effectively punishing her friend for somethign she can't help and has no control over.

Brownmouse posted "I can't cope with the idea of going on holiday with my friend's son - what suggestions can you make?" people would be responding very differently.

it is the

  1. implicit sexism
  2. condescending attitude of "shall we allow this woman to come along"
  3. martyred attitude (refusing friend's money to pay for damages and then bitching about it behind her back) and 4) namechanging

that has got people's backs up.

At any rate that's what's got MY back up.

Greyriver the scubadiving analogy is silly - a non-swimmer could not come on a scubadiving holiday because it wouldn't be safe and they wouldn't be able to take part in any of the activities and would be excluded anyway. They are talking about excluding this woman and her son purely for their own convenience and comfort - nothign to do with the little boy's safety and ability to enjoy the holiday.

expatinscotland · 16/04/2008 13:42

Great, let's have a bash girls thread!

Since people read gender discrimination in the OP, that makes it okay for everyone to pile in and gender discriminate against girls.

This is a nasty thread, but not for the reasons most people think.

SmugColditz · 16/04/2008 13:43

Exactly. It's only a holiday, can you not tolerate the poor little boy for a holiday?