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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to exclude my friend from a holiday because she's got a boy?

574 replies

brownmouse · 16/04/2008 12:37

regular here blah blah (we need an acronym for this )

I have a small group of 4 friends, we all have 1 child of the same age (5)

One of us has a boy

I am arranging a summer break for us all but the three of us with girls really don't want the other person coming along. The girls play nicely together while we sit around talking. The boy is loud and whacks the girls and is constantly full of energy, and is constantly knocking into us, interupting our conversation.

We'd like a summer BREAK where we sit around while the girls play. If we invite the mum-of-boy it won't be a break, it will be noisy and stressful.

Should we arrange it and exclude her, or just invite her and accept that it will just be a child-focussed holiday?

OP posts:
stuffitllama · 16/04/2008 13:43

Golly I bet you wouldn't get all this if you were posting under your regular name.

theyoungvisiter · 16/04/2008 13:43

sorry that should have read
if Brownmouse posted "I can't cope with the idea of going on holiday with my friend's son - what suggestions can you make?" people would be responding very differently.

expatinscotland · 16/04/2008 13:44

'Marina I think that is a fair point, but the point is that she is effectively punishing her friend for somethign she can't help and has no control over.'

How do you know this?

I've got friends who DO NOT discipline their kids when they're in other peoples' homes. They turn a blind eye to ill behaviour, including hitting or kicking other kids, or worse, think it's cute.

And no, they are NOT SN.

I don't want to hang out with people like that. My kids don't, either.

Greyriverside · 16/04/2008 13:44

Expat, thank you. I like your examples better.

I do realise it might be tricky to not invite them without offending in this case, but there's nothing wrong with the impulse to do so.

spokette · 16/04/2008 13:44

Greyriver, I cannot swim but when I go away with friends who can swim, I find other things to do. If I did not want to go, i would tell them. It never occurs to them to exclude me. Plus, when my friends have gone scuba diving, there have been lessons on scuba diving for those who want to learn or who want to refresh their skills.

Just because someone cannot do an activity, it does not mean that they should be excluded. After all, will you be scuba diving 24/7 and doing nothing else?

yorkshirepudding · 16/04/2008 13:45

Message withdrawn

SmugColditz · 16/04/2008 13:45

It's the way 'boy' has become, in the OP's mind, synonymous with "bloody hard work child".

She didn't ask for advice dealing with a bloody hard work child, she wanted to know if she was being unreasonable excluding a friend for having a child of a different gender, who has (probably non gender related) differing needs to those of her own and her other friend's children.

And yes, IMHO, she is being unreasonable.

expatinscotland · 16/04/2008 13:46

I feel sorry for people who take everything so personally, myself, Grey.

And let it destroy an otherwise good friendship.

I have some different interests from my friends. They know this.

So why take it personally or feel excluded because they don't include me in every little thing they do?

theyoungvisiter · 16/04/2008 13:46

Expat I agree some people don't discipline their children effectively and you CAN help that.

but the points brownmouse raise din her op were that the child is:

full of energy
loud
interrupts constantly
constantly runnign around and knocking into things.

plus that he whacks the girls. Whacking the girls is I agree unacceptable and should be stopped - but as for the rest if you know any way of making a naturally boisterous child of EITHER sex not be loud and energetic then good on you. I think they are personality traits that the friend probably can't iron out.

Oblomov · 16/04/2008 13:47

I wonder if Op really wil get the relaxing holiday she envisages. Even without this little lad.
I find looking after other children very tiring, even if it is only for 8 hours, and if it is ds's 2 cousins, who I love. But then I do only have a PFB. The idea of any holiday with 3 girls aged 5, sounds a nightmare.

TheFallenMadonna · 16/04/2008 13:47

I agree that it is a reasonable impulse not to invite them. For the sake of the friendship I wouldn't follow through with it.

The boy = boisterous thing is unreasonable full stop.

VacantlyPretty · 16/04/2008 13:48

Message withdrawn

yorkshirepudding · 16/04/2008 13:48

Message withdrawn

Tutter · 16/04/2008 13:48

surely the op doesn't really think it's because he's a boy?

why didn't she just say "because she's got a rough child"?

two separate issues here - the "girls are nice, boys are bad" thing

and the fact she wants to pick and choose from her friends

Greyriverside · 16/04/2008 13:49

Not the sex, but the temperament

marina · 16/04/2008 13:50

Yes I wondered that too stuffit - not that I have the faintest idea who brownmouse is tbh
TheYoungVisiter, all fair points re the OP. Read like that, it's not edifying, I agree.
But Mn is full of poorly phrased OPs and replies, every day, and it always makes me sad that once the original and justified criticisms of terminology/viewpoint have been made, the piling in continues indefinitely.
None of it will be making brownmouse change her mind, I reckon - because it will just make her defensive...or vanish.
So a good solution that does not exclude the little boy, either for a holiday or from this social circle, or make his mum sad, won't be reached
How does that help the cause of inclusion and good friendship I wonder?

wannaBe · 16/04/2008 13:50

but I'm not sure the issue is excluding this child on the basis of his behavior necessarily.

There are children in my ds' class I would rather he didn't play with because of their behavior, (although I wouldn't tell him that - he has to learn to make his own judgements), but what the op is doing here is trying to portray herself as a wonderful friend to this woman and professing how much she likes her and value her friendship, while at the same time slagging her off behind her back because of the damage her child did (which she won't reveal, and which the friend offered to pay for but which op declined), and wants to exclude this apparently good friend from a holiday with all the equally good friends.

You can't exclude someone and be their friend at the same time.

Oblomov · 16/04/2008 13:50

One of my friends, has a ds, who is a terror. She doesn't discipline him. I have looked after him for the day. And I really like it when they come round for the afternoon. But I do kind of go, "ahhhh", when thy leave, too.
I couldn't take him on holiday for a week, I am afraid.
Mid you, the exclusion of one friend, adds a different emphasis.

theyoungvisiter · 16/04/2008 13:51

FWIW I have a fairly quiet timid DS and my friend has a very boisterous aggressive DS (he hits, pushes and bites).

I find it stressful being with her son but I would never exclude her from anything because I think it's much harder to be her son's mother and be constantly apologising for his behaviour, and because I think the only way she is going to be able to deal with this is by helping her son to socialise more.

barnstaple · 16/04/2008 13:52

You say you are a good friend to this woman. Can you elaborate on that? You don't look like a good friend from here.

expatinscotland · 16/04/2008 13:52

I AM a mother, yorkshire! So why are you speaking to me as if I'm not?

'The protective mother button switches on very easily IME and can make us mums blow things out of proportion.'

'Us' mums? Um, I'm a mother, and it doesn't make me blow things out of proportion.

My DD1 is SN, she gets excluded from some things.

It does her NO favours to see me getting ridiculous about it.

ALL children need to learn not to take everything so personally, and it's not always about them.

I wouldn't be gutted about it if it were my DD, but I can be honest with my friends. That's why I don't have many, because the ones I do, we can be upfront with each other about ANYTHING.

I'd have known long in advance what the issues are.

That's why my suggestion to brownmouse was to be upfront about how she feels to her pal.

Original poster
brownmouse · 16/04/2008 13:53

OK I changed names because she sometimes comes on MN and I wanted to be slightly OPAQUE

Her son ripped the wiring out of the main electrical fuse box in my kitchen

I don't consider myself huffy, smug, a bitch, two-faced and a terrible friend. No, the mother-of-boy is not the single-mum although I appreciate that this would clarify your view of my as a nasty vindictive bitch.

The girls are at an age where we could take them away for a weekend abroad and it would be "doable" - ok not relaxing but not too stressful and a good experience for them to 'travel'. It would be a nice opportunity for them and we could do it cheaply.

Yes of course they whine but they are not boisterous which is what we all find extremely trying. And they all get on, whereas the boy does not really get on with them that well, he would prefer to be playing with a boy of his age, I am sure.

ANYWAY your opinions are appreciated and we will not do this - it's a shame because I think it would be a nice experience for the girls.

OP posts:
SmugColditz · 16/04/2008 13:54

So again, I'll pose the question ... how would you feel, OP, if it were you?

How would you feel if your three friends took you aside and said "We are going on holiday, I hope you don't feel left out, but we don't think we can stand your daughter for that long. See you when we get back!"

Imagine how you will feel.

Do you want to make this friend feel like that?

VacantlyPretty · 16/04/2008 13:54

Message withdrawn

KeepItPrivate · 16/04/2008 13:54

I am totally in shock reading these posts

I don't think the OP has said anything to deserve this torrent of abuse

I personally would feel exactly the same way about inviting a friend along who's child wouldn't behave in an acceptable way thus making the holiday stressful rather than relaxing.

I think the OP has been honest about her reasons and if I was the friend I would completely understand people not wanting me and my child to come. If this mother failed to supervise her son in the OP's house for so long he was able to cause £200 worth of damage - God knows what he'd get up to on holiday - possilbly putting the others in danger.

Hopefully the uninvited friend may learn from this and in future choose to disipline her child with more effect, thereby doing him a favour and ensuring he does get invited places in the future.