Neighbours Autistic daughter

[Ashellwithin]

Good evening all,

I was recommended to seek advice on this forum by a friend. If anyone could advise, I would be very much appreciative.

I have been living in my flat for the past 12 years. During the first few years, we have had to deal with my neighbour's daughter horrific meltdowns (e.g., jumping on the floor, crying). She was 4 or 5 years old at the time and although I did complain to our Local Housing officer about this, I didn't take this any further as she was quite young and did not think it would be taken seriously. Plus, the meltdowns seemed to had settled during the years.

However, now that my neighbour's daughter is a teen, the meltdowns have started all over again and they are much worse. She will curse, shout, bang, throw things, slams doors, runs up and down. She is very loud! On those days where it has gotten too much, I have regrettably shouted to "Keep the noise down!", on a few occasions. But the noise was really grating me.

The neighbour (mum) struggles to calm down her daughter and often takes her out of the house for long periods of duration or I will see them both wandering in the streets (around midnight!). I have also seen quite a few professionals (I'm assuming as they have lanyards) come in and out of her flat which I take is to support the neighbour's daughter. So I do think the neighbour is trying to support her daughter the best way she can. However, the noise is unbearable and I can no longer take it. I have made a formal complaint to the council about the noise and have recorded the daughter's meltdowns as evidence.

Since then, a mediation meeting between the neighbour and I to resolve the matter. The meeting has not taken place yet as the neighbour always has something going on (so wondering if she is avoiding this). But I'm hoping to move to a new property or secretly wishing that they will kick out the neighbours and move them elsewhere.

Other than that, what else can I do? This is taken a toll on my mental health.

Maybe talking with the mum would help? You don’t need mediation to take a cake round and suggest you have a cup of tea together. She might be better suited to a house with a garden. Maybe her daughter would be calmer with a garden. Walking the streets at midnight can’t be something the mum does out of choice and it doesn’t sound very safe either. Maybe if you and mum worked together she and her dd might be moved to housing she’d find easier?

There are ways of measuring noise and quite clear rules about what level of noise is acceptable at what time of day. I guess the first thing they would do is a survey of the noise in your flat at different times of day.

• If there survey showed that the noise was acceptable (within the legal limits, based on the noise laws) they would probably do nothing.
• If it isn't then, if yours is a council property, they would probably offer you a different property.
• If the neighbour is also in a council property, they might offer them a more suitable home for the noise (e.g. a detached house) if they had one.
• If the neighbour is not in a council property they would probably take it no further.

Assuming the neighbour is in council property, offering them different accommodation which could better suit their needs, based on disability is fine, good even. Making them move because of a disability, to a less suitable house, or one that would require challenging upheaval that would be detrimental to their daughter, is not legal. Making them move privately, due to disability is also not legal.

I'm going through something very similar except I'm the neighbour with the autistic child. My neighbour hasn't reported me to the council but they're up at my door on a regular basis and hammering on the ceiling. I tell him the same thing every time. I'm doing my best.

I can tell you that the mum will be living on tenterhooks and on edge 24-7 and is highly likely already doing everything she can and more.

All we can ever do is try our best to manage our DC's needs but we can't possibly pre empt every meltdown or stop every bang.

Short of restraining her daughter (which would be massively frowned upon unless done to prevent serious harm coming to herself or somebody else) what do you think / expect she can do about it?

It's a miserable life to be honest. Absolutely miserable.

You have my sympathy, as does my neighbour, this is one of those situations where nobody is technically 'in the wrong' and everybody is unhappy.

I can reccomend you buy some 'loop' ear plugs or a cheaper brand of the same design. They're a game changer in terms of blocking out noise.

It's awful having a noisy neighbour OP, whatever the reason, so I do feel for you. I also feel for the poor mum who is obviously trying to do everything she can to reduce the impact on you, even if that's walking the streets at midnight.

We had similar, and ultimately we sold our house and moved, as others have said, sometimes you have to make things better for yourself. Is there anyone you can go stay with for a bit to give yourself a break, whilst you look at your options?

Floor noise insulation or ceiling, depends if neighbours are above or below you. It mitigates the noise a lot. If they're below add a thick rug to your floor. This is clearly a girl with MH issues so not much you can do, talk with the mother, be calm and polite about it, she too is suffering, more than you.

Read about what it’s like to be an unpaid carer of someone with this sort of situation going on. Learn about her life with her daughter. Then reconsider your choices.

The person / people who move in most likely will have similar issues though. The current set up doesn’t appear to be working for anyone: the OP, the mother or the daughter next door

My thoughts are about how long can the mother cope with the daughter in an ordinary home situation. Walking around at midnight is not much of an answer. Relatives of ours looked after their daughter well until they got older and the daughter stronger. For the sake of the parents the daughter was taken to residential care.
I visited her and she seemed happier. Her behaviour improved. She was far more amenable and less frustrated.

They won't make the neighbour leave as the noise is due to the child's disability. They're not being a noise nuisance on purpose.

The best you can hope for is a move yourself.

Or, you could offer to go round and deal with it yourself. It might make you realise that it is not as easy or as controllable as you think.

My autistic child gets these meltdowns and it's awful, especially when you're conscious that the neighbours can hear it.

It's extremely stressful for the child and the parent. We have learnt over the years how to make our child calm down quicker so we've gone from 3 hours of continuous screaming to around 1-1.5 hours of it.

We've learnt not to touch our child, talk to them or look at them when they're disregulated otherwise they'll scream louder and for longer. However, they always need me to be present so if I leave, they scream.louder and for longer.

We just have to wait it out until they've calmed down.

What happens is, their eyes go almost black and they look totally zoned out and it's impossible to get through to them. It's like they are looking but not really seeing and they go into another world.

It's awful and we have very little control over it but always try to swerve a meltdown where possible as it's stressful and exhausting for all involved, including the neighbours.

We do but them wine as an apology.

At least the fact that both of you are HA tenants means there is a chance of one of you being moved on and the problem being dealt with. If you were in the private sector, renting or owning (with a mortgage) there would be zero chance of any help at all.

As others have said, see your GP as your mental health is being impacted. The fact that your neighbours are also having problems, doesn't mean you are not entitled to sympathy. Decent headphones and earplugs will help until you are able to move, or the neighbours move.

I concur

So what would you suggest?

My DD is autistic, she doesn't melt down and is very noise sensitive.

Our neighbour has some form of MH / additional needs and two developmentally delayed children and they all scream, shout and swearing at each other.

We wear noise cancelling headphones, they live in a council property and won't be moved as that is exactly who council properties are for. I have reported them but only because the screaming and shouting regularly verges into emotional neglect.

In your case after the mediation the council may recommend or find some noise reducing adjustments to try and reduce the noise but I don't think they'll move either of you, unless the upstairs flat is no longer physically safe for the daughter.

Your options are to put in for a house exchange, rent somewhere else privately or buy somewhere .

Ah OK it sounded like a pointless exercise because it is one.
What a waste of everyone's time.

It sounds like a crappy situation all round. I have a son with autism so I know how loud he can be at times I do my best to mitigate this but it is a constant job to try and keep a close eye on when he's starting to get overwhelmed and to try and calm him down.
I imagine if the mum is worried about the daughter being noisy and this causing problems that she is probably stressed which is inflaming the situation.

That's said I can also imagine how difficult it would be to listen to this all the time, if you can't relax at home where can you relax.

I hope it gets sorted somehow for you. I would say if you can maybe explain to the mum (outside mediation) that your issue isn't with her it's with the building not being soundproof / fit for purpose for either you or her daughter.

You might have more chance of getting her onside that way because if they won't re home either of you maybe they can take steps to put better soundproofing in If you're both complaining about the same issue.

As others have said speak to the council. Most likely the daughter is annoying and disturbing other neighbours if she is so loud

Sympathy all round.
First thing OP, take the mother some flowers and apologise for banging on the wall.
Second, get yourself noise cancelling headphones/ear plugs.
At the mediation meeting, find out if the mother and daughter want to move, they may actually want a house were the daughter will have less impact on the neighbours. Your 'complaint' might help them. If they don't that's fine though.
Third thing, get the council (I'm assuming you are both council tenants) to put as much soundproofing into the flats as possible. Even if mother/daughter want to move, it could take years so unless you move yourself, you'll have to manage living with the noise.
Fourth thing, a bit off the wall, but try hypnosis, it might help you ignore the noise.

Move the poor mother out to more suitable accommodation, ie, not a flat.
She is probably really anxious about upsetting the neighbours, hence the midnight walks.
I cannot imagine the stress she must be under.
Also poor op. Must be hell for her, it's nor her child why should she just put up and shut up!!!! She has a right to some peace as well

Op they are walking the streets at ‘midnight’ for people like you!
I understand this is hard for you, imagine being the poor girl and her poor mum. This is me and our son. It’s absolutely heartbreaking and exhausting

OK I can now see you live in London. They are not going to re house you or your neighbours. There isn't enough housing. You can try and swap your property with someone else, now you have raised a complaint that might be very tricky to do as I think you need to declare any complaints. They may offer that you can move into temporary accommodation, which would be significantly worse and then you could bid on other properties which could take years.

moving house will probably make the daughter worse of course.
My DD had awful meltdowns, especially as the hormones kicked in during puberty, but she did settle down after that and is much calmer now.
OP - I would be inclined to wait it out if you don't want to move.
By the way, it is horribly stressful for the parent, so please be nice.

I think flats aren't built properly these days. They should have concrete floors

But this is about OP. I think everyone can sympathise with the mother’s situation but we can feel sympathy for more than one person at once.

My neighbour has an autistic non verbal
child who jumps on a trampoline for hours at a time, making a noise that after 30 mins gives me a headache. I’d never say a thing of course but anonymously here, it’s horrible

This is such a difficult situation for all involved. I have a 13 year old dd with ASD and I’m so relieved we live in the middle of nowhere with no neighbours, so I can focus on her without worrying about anyone else. When she is having a meltdown, despite our best efforts, sometimes there’s nothing we can do and her noise level is off the scale. I can’t imagine how hard it must be to live in a flat and have to think about the neighbours too.

In an ideal world, I hope they can be rehoused in a home that will be more suitable for this girls needs. I really do sympathise with both you and this family.

I'm sure most of us would have compassion but ... we have to lead our lives too, and it's difficult to do with extra stress and disrupted sleep.

A detached house needs to be found for the family with the child with autism, clearly.

That mother's life must be a freaking nightmare. I wonder where the father is.

There is zero chance that a detached house is going to be found for this family. There are hundreds and hundreds of parents living with severely disabled child in flats all over London.