Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

[flowermo]

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

I don't understand why all seem to think I'm making out I'm a perfect parent by teaching my children basic manners and to respect other people's property. Trust me there are many areas I have well and truly fucked up in.

It seems like you're making a big effort to protect your parenting by expecting others to accommodate your child. The gravy boat incident was an accident that could have been avoided. I let my child explore the lower cupboards to play with pots and pans. Nevertheless, in other company and homes I made they were supervised and in some cases, they weren't allowed to wander about willy-nilly. They learnt the difference between expectations and behaviour in different environments.

Being late to school these days can result in being marked as absent. If this happens too often, the school may send a letter or email and investigate the situation. It's important to realize that in the real world, constantly needing validation for strong emotions won't be accepted. As an adult, being late can lead to being disciplined or even dismissed in certain industries.

When it comes to siblings arguing, we don't get involved. We allow them to handle their disagreements on their own so they can learn about hierarchies and negotiation, which are important skills, especially as they grow into their teenage years. It's important for them to understand that they won't always get what they want and that they may feel a sense of injustice.

Sure kids stop listening to parents who just shout all the time

You could say the say about the long script - not ever incident needs a good 10 minutes of shared a feelings.

Yeah that's basically Parenting on MN summed up @flowermo 🤣

Look, for all the tit for tat "well you're just wishy washy" / "well you're damaging your kids" stuff, most parents are doing their best and parenting the children they have.

Obviously there are exceptions and I try not to judge, but yeah sometimes I do - the mum at soft play on the phone blissfully unaware that sweet little Luna is blocking the slide and hitting other kids or the dad regularly screaming at his kids or calling them stupid for nothing more than being children. It's sad, it's rage inducing and I definitely judge a bit, even though we're not supposed to apparently.

I'm probably classed as a "gentle" parent but I don't really have a particular philosophy. I think hitting is wrong and a line that shouldn't be crossed. Same with calling your kids names or putting them down really. I get shouting when you've got the limit, I've definitely done it, but I don't think it works as a regular tactic - it definitely doesn't with mine, it just escalates everything. My "firm mum voice" with the hard stare seems to work better. My son is 4.5 and he's not perfect - he can be silly, gets over excited or moody. But generally he's doing well. Nursery say he's a lovely boy and I don't dread taking him out places or having a day at home with him.

I've been the parent getting the "oh isn't he so well mannered" comments but I've also been the parent carrying him out of a shop screaming his head off. But I think that's what the thing is really - children are gonna be children, sometimes they will have a meltdown in a shop, they're going to be inpatient at restaurants, they're going to get over excited and want the whole bag of smarties or not want to share that toy that day, but it's up to the parents to parent them through it.

It's exhausting and repetitive but it does pay off.

My one eye roll thing with the "internet" gentle parenting is the loooooong winded explanations. Young kids can't take it all in, just keep it short and simple - they don't need to hear war and peace about why they can't run into a road or hit people!

I realise that this is from yesterday, but one thing we did was when ours were five was we enrolled our children in a taekwondo class aimed specifically at youngsters (other martial arts I'm sure offer the same!). I remember the instructor ending every class with the reminder that they could only continue learning this 'deadly martial art' if they didn't use it on their mum, dad, brothers, sisters, friends, teachers or enemies! In fact it was only to be practiced on 'pads or cushions if your parents say so'.

We reinforced this at home, that if they hit people then they would not be allowed to continue Taekwondo, as they would really be able to hurt someone once they were good at it. The discipline of the Taekwondo was great, and we never had them hitting each other as they grew up.

There are three main camps: permissive (often called gentle), authoritative, and authoritarian (strict, rule-based).

A number of psychological studies have shown the authoritative (not authoritarian) approach produces the happies, most well adjusted children.

Yes, it was an avoidable accident. If your children have never had an avoidable accident, then you're lying, and will get on well with Differentstarts above. As I've already stated, we weren't just calling in for a few hours, we lived there for a few weeks, and it's very difficult to prevent any accidents when living in a house full of breakables in reachable places with a small toddler. She was TWO YEARS OLD, they are not going to fully understand rules at two. I think we were doing well only having one breakage in several weeks tbh. The reason I told the story was in response to someone saying shouting wasn't necessary and I agreed with her, my daughter was totally shocked to be shouted at because that's not something we'd ever done at that point and have only done once since. That doesn't mean she hasn't learned not to touch things in other people's houses NOW, but as I said, TWO.

I don't know what relevance being late has. My daughter has been late once for preschool because she had a strop about not being able to find the shoes she wanted to wear. She had to ring the buzzer at the gate to be let in and was embarrassed about it and doesn't want it to happen again.

The same re siblings fighting, how is it relevant?

I don't feel any need to protect my parenting, my daughter is a gem and we're regularly told she's a credit to us so I'm not at all worried. I just think when someone is telling me that their 2 year old never made a mistake, never touched something they shouldn't have, never forgot their manners, and they as a parent never once took their eyes off them in a situation where they should have been watching, even for a minute, they deserve to be called out for bare-faced mendacity.

Gentle parenting was supposed to be authoritative, according to the person who coined the term. It's just been warped a lot since then.

https://sarahockwell-smith.com/2019/06/03/how-to-be-a-gentle-not-permissive-parent/

I'm not on board with a lot of what SOS says but she never promoted permissive parenting.

I'm supposed to not shout or have a go at her and listen to her feelings as to why she felt the need to snatch it out of my hands and run off with it, when I asked her not to. But wait, it's my fault she even thought to do it in the first place

Yep. This just about sums it up. Gentle parenting advice is completely useless when it turns out you don’t have a perfect , robot for a child. Only answer is : well if you had done gentle parenting right, you wouldn’t be facing these challenges, because your child would be said well adjusted, perfectly behaved robot.

Meanwhile in the real world…

Having said that I do think there are elements of gentle parenting philosophy that are really helpful -
mostly the stuff related to emotional intelligence:
examining our own emotional triggers as parents; understanding the need behind children’s behaviour; learning to empathise with our children; validating their emotions (even the uncomfy negative ones); apologising to our children when we get it wrong. All these are helpful points of general guidance. But beyond these general principles much of the specific advice contained in the books written by people like Sarah OS, is silly and unrealistic.

well these are just my thoughts based on my experiences of parenting so far. (I only have experience parenting the really little ones).

Honestly I think you need to trust your own instinct and figure out your own parenting style.

If your daughter snatches and runs off with/breaks your powder, of course you can take it back and show you’re annoyed. You’re not a robot! How you handle that is up to you. Sure you can think about why she did it - curiosity, boredom, wanting your attention. That doesn’t mean you can’t ever say no or tell her off! There isn’t an obvious consequence (if you want a consequence) but if she’s broken something, the logical thing is to encourage her to help you do it.

There aren’t gentle parenting police, if you shout or lose your cool - own it, let it go and apologise if you need to. There is no such thing as a perfect parent (or perfect kids), I honestly believe if we do our best and give them what we perhaps didn’t get (in my experience that’s some slack for having emotions) and also tell them off when they’re being knobs and make sure they know they’re loved and whatever, then we can’t go far wrong.

Do I shout? Yep.
Do I sometimes not think before I react? Yep.
Do I sometimes make an empty threat? Yep.

Am I trying my best? Yes. Are you? Yes. Let yourself off the hook.

Don't worry, pp is just arguing for the sake of it.

Of course the vast majority of parents of toddlers/babies watch them carefully when they're outside the home. Unless you only take them to soft plays, the vast majority of places you take your 2yo are not toddler-proofed, not just a friend or grandparent's house.

Non toddler-proofed places I've taken a toddler regularly:
The supermarket
The pub
A restaurant
The park
Child-free relatives' and friends' houses

No, I don't let my kids go into other people's cupboards any more than I'd let them look in someone's handbag. This is normal parenting, of course yanbu.

I've also never locked away medicines or bleaches. My dd has always known never to touch them, before she was even physically old enough to open a twist cap or pop a tablet blister. I'll teach my ds the same.

You seem to have become so upset that it's affecting your understanding. Other people have pointed out the flaws in your argument. You should have stopped your daughter from damaging things on someone else's property, not blamed the owner. The responsibility always falls on you, not anyone else. I'm not concerned about the gravy boat - what you did was get upset because your mum shouted, and then you tried to blame her for the accident. I know it's not the child's fault. I hope that clears up the confusion.

The other points in my post were not aimed at you. They were just general replies to other concerns raised in the thread.
As for the shouting, rest assured your daughter will be shouted at- maybe even unfairly- at school, by other children, or even by strangers.

I'm not even slightly upset, where have you got that from?

I wasn't upset that my Mum shouted, my daughter was upset and that upset my Mum who asked whether she'd never been shouted at before and I said that no, she hadn't been, and that was why she was so devastated. It's not as if she was emotionally scarred by it, it was just a new experience for her that she didn't like. My Mum avoids shouting at her now as she knows she's not used to it.

I haven't said it wasn't my fault she broke the gravy boat, I've openly said that I'm not perfect and I took my eyes off her for too long. I don't believe any parent can honestly say they've never taken their eyes off their toddler.

I didn't blame the owner, but I also think if you have a 2 yo living in your house, accidents sometimes happen and it's wise to put fragile valuables out of reach.

If your children have never had an avoidable accident, then you're lying, and will get on well with Differentstarts above.
There are plenty of sentences where you're being rather defensively mordacious to me and other posters.
In this reply, you're still attempting to suggest others should put their valuables out of the way.😂

I think anyone claiming they've never had an avoidable accident with their child is a liar. I'm not upset about that. I don't really care about your need to lie on Mumsnet, that's between you and a MH professional.

I'm happy to die on the hill that if you are living with a 2 yo it's daft to put things you don't want broken within their reach. No matter how well behaved they are or how well watched they are, accidents happen. Childminders and nurseries are checked to make sure nothing fragile is within reach of the children for this very reason. However, it's your prerogative to put a whole load of Faberge eggs at floor level and then host a toddler playgroup if you wish. It makes no difference to me.

This is what I do.
We try and let our little people do what they want within reason and they know that bad behaviour comes with consequences.
they already know about karma).

So today, my kids behaved in ways that I am mortified by and they are being sanctioned by no electronics and no YouTube (which I’m trying to ban totally anyway).

The three of us are ND and it’s a struggle sometimes to control my reactions and sadly it does get shouty (and sweary in my part but never at them). As soon as I realise what I’m doing, I stop it because I’m trying to lead by example but fact is, my two are hard work and staying calm is difficult.
I think they are a little scared of DP and I through the verbal telling off and I’m kind of ok with that. I tell my DS that just because we’re ND doesn’t mean it’s ok to be an arsehole.

But they’re allowed to make their own decisions, obviously we step in when it’s necessary but I would say we’re more gentle than traditional.

My son won’t try foods and I thought about giving him some chicken fillets as he eats chicken dippers and telling him that this is dinner and there’ll be nothing else. But that brought anxiety to me as I was force-fed as a child and made to eat stuff that I really didn’t like. I can’t do that to my child.
It’s a typical autistic boy trait, the beige diet.

I just really dont want them to be arseholes as they get older.